Norwich City Supporters Trust

Personal Trainer

Personal Trainer

New Member
Hi Duncan.

No they don't, in fact most of the Trust Board members have retained their personal shareholding which means that the Trust can be well represented at the NCFC Annual General Meeting and anyhow as the Trust is registered under the Industrial and Provident Societies Act and subject to the oversight of the Financial Control Authority such an action would be illegal.
 
lappinitup

lappinitup

New Member
[SIZE=16pt]"OUR AIM[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Our aim is to increase the size of the Trust’s shareholding so that the fans become one of the largest shareholders in Norwich City Football Club outside of the Directors[/SIZE][SIZE=11pt]."[/SIZE]

I was always given to understand the Trust's 'aim' was to actually obtain a seat on the board. How many shares do you think will be required to achieve this aim and what percentage of the total club shares do the Trust hold at this time?
 
Personal Trainer

Personal Trainer

New Member
When we launched in 2002 it was one of the Trusts aims as it was happening at a number of Clubs, Swansea being the the most "senior" example.

Since then the whole face of football has changed with an influx of dodgy owners backed by dodgy money (NCFC even had it's own potential new owner, one Giovanni Di Stefano). Now it is more important that a legal entity holding as many shares as possible, on behalf of fans, is in place in case NCFC was confronted by a "Portsmouth" situation where as you know the Pompey Trust acted as a "vehicle" around which whole groups of "small shareholders" and local businesses coalesced allowing them to negotiate the purchase of the Club. 

As to the % of shares held, it is tiny in respect to the amount of shares held by Delia Smith, Michael Wynn Jones and Michael Foulger but since the company is not a listed company it does not have to open it's share register to other shareholders and therefore the Trust has no idea where it stands in the shareholders "League Table"
 
Canaryboy

Canaryboy

Well-Known Member
but since the company is not a listed company it does not have to open it's share register to other shareholders and therefore the Trust has no idea where it stands in the shareholders "League Table"
Doesn't the club have to submit that list to Companies House in its annual return, and can it not be purchased by any member of the public from sites like Duedil? 

I've just had a quick look at their summary pages, who are the Norwich City Supporters Society Ltd? 

Duedil seems to show Archant Limited as owning 3500 shares. 

At £100 a share that gives them a shareholding 'worth' £350,000. 

Which is why I often use the word 'independent' when trying to sell the virtues of this sites existence. 
 
TILLY

TILLY

New Member
From memory the accounts show that Delia and Michael own 357,000 ordinary shares and a look on the club website shows that shareholders owning more than 10% of the total shareholding are Delia and Michael with 53% and Michael Foulger with 15%. The Trust website puts their share total at 1269 shares. I am sure somebody who has a calculator handy can work it all out. :)
 
lappinitup

lappinitup

New Member
Thanks for that trustsec. I think dropping the pursuit of a supporter/director is a very wise move. For example, can you imagine if someone was in the postion last season when the fans were split 50/50 over whether Chris Hughton should stay or go, he/she would be faced with making an unenviable choice in the boardroom which would have upset half the Trusts membership whichever way he/she voted.

I don't want to appear too critical because I realise you people give up a lot of time for the cause but, I must also ask.....why on earth are you advertising for a blogger on your site and then adding a disclaimer stating that "it does not reflect the views of the Trust"?  Surely a contentious article could cause an explosive debate on your own site that many come on here (for example) to avoid?

 
 
Personal Trainer

Personal Trainer

New Member
Hi Canary Boy.

Norwich City Supporters Society limited is the official trading name of Norwich City Supporters Trust.

Hi John

We are all aware that the Trust shareholding is small but at least there is a shareholding held on behalf of NCFC fans.
 
Personal Trainer

Personal Trainer

New Member
Hi lappinitup.

You are right, I got the wording wrong, meant to say blogs would be "moderated". I agree that this site is a pleasure to involve oneself in.
 
Warren Hill

Warren Hill

New Member
If the figures quoted are correct then it works out to about 0.19%.

Of course with members retaining their own shareholding I'm sure that the figure would increase quickly for the "greater good" if things ever took a serious turn for the worse - I assume there is no regulation or stipulation against people gifting shares to the group? Or have I completely misunderstood your previous point TrustSec?
 
Canaryboy

Canaryboy

Well-Known Member
Hi Canary Boy.

Norwich City Supporters Society limited is the official trading name of Norwich City Supporters Trust.
In terms of where the trust sits "on the list", going by the information that Duedil provides (without purchasing anything), then it is the 17th largest shareholder.

But Duedil claims you have 1090 shares, so I'm not sure whether that information is up to date or not.

Presumably the relevant document is the 2013 Annual Return, which was submitted 13th October 2013.

That can be purchased for 96 pence.

It may be worth purchasing a copy of that annual return to make sure the club are correctly reporting the number of shares in your ownership! Or perhaps wiser to wait for the 2014 return, which I guess they will submit soon. 

If you now have over 1200 then it is possible that the trust is actually the 15th largest, although that will depend on who else has accrued or disposed of shares. 
 
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GazzaTCC

GazzaTCC

Active Member
A Company has to provide a full list of shareholders with its Annual Return every third year. The 2013 Annual Return provides the last full list.
 
Canaryboy

Canaryboy

Well-Known Member
A Company has to provide a full list of shareholders with its Annual Return every third year. The 2013 Annual Return provides the last full list.
Thanks for confirming that, thought so. 

But as the 2013 annual return was submitted in October 2013, they may be best just waiting for the October 2014 submission. 
 
GazzaTCC

GazzaTCC

Active Member
Thanks for confirming that, thought so.

But as the 2013 annual return was submitted in October 2013, they may be best just waiting for the October 2014 submission.
The 2014 Return, which is due in a few days time, will not give a full list, just details of changes to the shareholding list over the past year.
 
Canaryboy

Canaryboy

Well-Known Member
The 2014 Return, which is due in a few days time, will not give a full list, just details of changes to the shareholding list over the past year.
Oh I see, missed the word "full", thanks.
 
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GazzaTCC

GazzaTCC

Active Member
The 2013 Annual Return is 139 pages long if anyone wants some bedtime reading????
 
Personal Trainer

Personal Trainer

New Member
Hi Warren Hill

The Trust definitely accepts donations of shares, and of course Trust members who are share holders in their own right can proxy their votes if the were a major issue of contention raised at the NCFC Annual General Meeting. Details on the Trusts handling of NCFC can be found on http://www.inthehandsofthefans.co.uk/index.php/ncfc-shares
 
lappinitup

lappinitup

New Member
Hi Warren Hill

The Trust definitely accepts donations of shares, and of course Trust members who are share holders in their own right can proxy their votes if the were a major issue of contention raised at the NCFC Annual General Meeting. Details on the Trusts handling of NCFC can be found on http://www.inthehandsofthefans.co.uk/index.php/ncfc-shares
The link above takes you straight to a page on your website where a private individual is offering four shares for sale at £45 each. It begs the question: why hasn't the Trust bought them rather than advertise them when they are being offered at less than half price? Seems like a bargain to me. :)
 
Personal Trainer

Personal Trainer

New Member
Hi lappinitup

Does to me to!

Part of the negotiations with NCFC regarding continuing release of shares to the Trust was that the Trust would act as intermediaries for the Club to handle the number of requests they get for NCFC to buy back individuals shares (usually in parcels of 4) or for individuals to buy small amounts of NCFC shares. The Trust has to post them on the site for an agreed period of time to see if there are any potential purchasers before making an offer. NCFC Legal Dept. does however handle all share transfers as their part of this deal. 
 
lappinitup

lappinitup

New Member
"Part of the negotiations with NCFC regarding continuing release of shares to the Trust".....

I'm sorry trustsec but every answer you give seems to throw up another question. :)

It seems unlikely NCFC would be likely to issue too many more shares as every new issue would dilute D&M's 53% holding. Therefore, buying existing shares would seem to be the way to go. Do you think you will ever be able to buy enough shares to have a real say in the running of the club?
 
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Lone Star Canary

Lone Star Canary

New Member
As I finish writing this I realize this may be slightly tangential.  It's not my intention to hijack this thread, however... and I think that there's a fair bit related discussion here.

There's been a lot of questions tossed about and quite a few answers to go with them, but I guess my question is how the Trust relates to the various supporter groups scattered around the world.

I have traded some emails with Gemma Gifford (NCFC Media Relations Manager) while getting my group recognized by the club, but while I understand that the relationship between groups and the club is in a bit of flux right now (including how the groups are displayed on the club's website), there's never been any formal agreement on rights and responsibilities concerning either both side.  There was apparently a meeting the Friday night before the Birmingham game where groups could meet with the club to discuss things, but it was announced way too late for probably any of the groups abroad to attend.  I've dropped a couple emails to Gemma since offering my (admittedly unsolicted), but haven't heard anything back.

I noticed that the Global Canaries webpage is no longer directly linked from the “Fans” tab dropdown options.  I assume this is part of the reassessment.  My suggestion to her was to look at what other clubs have done for their similar sections and see what might be a best fit for NCFC.  I examined a handful of clubs and found a common theme - a google map (similar to what's here on the forum) for quick reference and an easily navigated listing usually broken down into subcategories by English county, other UK, and overseas.  Ease of navigation is key.  No one wants to go beyond a couple of mouse-clicks to find the group with which they might identify.  The listing for each specific group has a brief description and more contact info. 

I had hoped the discussion from the Friday Sept 19 meeting was focused on how the support groups can serve the club and vice versa.  I’d like to think of ourselves as ambassadors for the club.  In the UK that probably has a different meaning than over here, because so much more of that mission here is simply getting recognition for the club as 99.9% of people have never heard of it.  The common refrain among folks here is that if it’s Saturday and we run to the grocery store in your jersey after a game to pick up a few items for lunch, other people think you’re wearing some Brazilian shirt.  If they ask you obviously take a moment to inform them.  Same thing goes for when I go down to the Stockyard wearing a jersey and a Tettey mask and dance in front of a dozen longhorn cattle while my son records it (there's a new @BigGrantHolt video coming).  We’re just trying to expose NCFC to the world.  While those of us in the USA are in our second year of heavy EPL broadcasting thanks to NBC, there are obviously a half dozen or so clubs that have a huge head start in gaining exposure.  We're just spreading the word.

There are of course other activities, in short:

[SIZE=11pt]Organize services and events for group members – watch parties, friendlies, social events, etc…[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Bring local fans together through their love of NCFC [/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Protect and enhance the NCFC brand [/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Value, maintain, and promote the history of NCFC[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Communicate the views of group members to NCFC [/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Help support NCFC-affiliated charitable causes [/SIZE]

I think it's safe to say these items are congruent with the goals/aims of the Trust.

For me, the club’s primary duty is acting as a conduit linking Canary supporters to the clubs.  If you’re in Kansas, where do you find other like-minded fans?  Google is a wonderful tool, but like a phone directory 30-40 years ago not everyone knows (how) to use it… but if they go directly to the club they should be able to easily find their nearest group.  The website doesn’t need to be idiot-proof (there is no such thing), but should be as simple to intuitively navigate as possible.  Looking at the supporter group systems for other clubs I know there are all sorts of other potential benefits out there, and I encouraged Gifford to research them (examination and adoption of best practices, as we say in my office).  From over here, right now our focus is on the networking.  Our interests aren’t going to be the same as say, the Posh Canaries, simply because our daily/weekly/monthly/annual Canary experiences are different.  Our members might make a game or two a year whereas local groups might be season ticket holders and/or regularly attend away games… so if a topic come up like say, stadium expansion, while we might have an opinion, it’s not a pressing concern since there’s little impact on us.

Anyway, I'll stop here before y'all's eyes start glazing over... but I'd appreciate any feedback/experience anyone has between support groups and the club.
 

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