In or Out?

[SussexYellow]

I cannot believe that Phelan has come here to be second to anyone!

Wiz - I hope he is on a whacking big bonus if we get promoted no matter what position he holds.

 

[Andy]

Almost seems like a stupid question - but how would you vote now?

Definitely out for me. One win in 10 actually flatters Adams, the performances have been absolutely rubbish.

 

[lyb]

Emphatic in for me. He did enough in the first ten games to see there was something there. Yes, he's pretty inexperienced and in at the deep end, but he's got experience around him. But most importantly, I am simply sick of people taking the attitude that managers are the be all and end all, when it simply isn't the case. You just end up lurching from disaster to disaster for ages until you strike it lucky, do well for a while, and either they move on to better things or eventually hit a bump in the road and they get denounced as clueless as is so often the case and you're back to square one. 

Adams is a good manager and the results were as good for the first 10 as they are bad from then. He's got a top notch coaching staff and people may see Phelan as a manager in waiting, he's also over 60 so I don't think we'll have that long out of him even assuming he does actually want the top job, which isn't necessarily so when you consider the added stress you get being a manager as opposed to an assistant or a coach, and if also I firmly believe he could have gone straight into a manager's job before now if he'd wanted that.

 Adams is strongly tied to Norwich. He's getting his experience on the job, but he's got the previous assistant to the best in the business only just in through the door, Sir Alex Ferguson, who incidentally did not get instant results at Man U, but I bet they're glad they stuck.  If Adams proves a success then he'll be with us for the long-term. That's a gamble, but it's a gamble that's streets ahead of all of the other options. If he's sacked then there's no going back and we'll be just another club that continues to flail from manager to manager to no avail as we did for so many years.

Besides, we've got three hall of famers in charge at the mo. Where's your sense of adventure?

 

[Andy]

Did he really do enough in the first ten games? Wolves was a disaster and we failed to put in a decent 90 mins performance in any of them. How it was 0-0 at half time at Brentford is beyond me, we should have been 3 or 4 down. We made heavy work against a tragically poor Blackpool. The only games that we looked decent were Blackburn & Watford.

Adams is a nice bloke and a true City fan but he shows no signs of making any progress as a manager. Boro away really did it for me, it was painful to watch them toying with us. They even withdrew their best players at 2-0 because the result was assured. The surrender at Forest was the final straw.

I have always stood by the manager, because I know that all managers have poor spells. Adams is a rookie, a novice with no track record at senior level. I can only judge him on his recent results and performances, both have been atrocious against very poor sides. We have some tough games coming up, I have no confidence in Adams and would urge the board to act in the club's best interest or face the real prospect of League 1 football next season. It really is that bad.

 

[Din]

Emphatic in for me. He did enough in the first ten games to see there was something there. Yes, he's pretty inexperienced and in at the deep end, but he's got experience around him. But most importantly, I am simply sick of people taking the attitude that managers are the be all and end all, when it simply isn't the case. You just end up lurching from disaster to disaster for ages until you strike it lucky, do well for a while, and either they move on to better things or eventually hit a bump in the road and they get denounced as clueless as is so often the case and you're back to square one. 

Adams is a good manager and the results were as good for the first 10 as they are bad from then. He's got a top notch coaching staff and people may see Phelan as a manager in waiting, he's also over 60 so I don't think we'll have that long out of him even assuming he does actually want the top job.  Adams is strongly tied to Norwich. He's getting his experience on the job, but he's got the previous assistant to the best in the business, Sir Alex Ferguson, who incidentally did not get instant results at Man U, but I bet they're glad they stuck.  If Adams proves a success then he'll be with us for the long-term. That's a gamble, but it's a gamble that's streets ahead of all of the other options. If he's sacked then there's no going back and we'll be just another club that continues to flail from manager to manager to no avail as we did for so many years.

Besides, we've got three hall of famers in charge at the mo. Where's your sense of adventure?

Chris Hughton showed through our 10 match unbeaten run in his first season that he can get us playing well and winning games, however I don't think that anyone could argue with the fact that he was rightly sacked in the end. It doesn't matter at all to me that he's got experience around him, because he's had experience around him for all of the season so far and yet we're still in a very poor position.

Adams may well turn out to be a very good manager but right now we have seen no real evidence of it in recent games. He has made the wrong decisions with regards to team selection and substitutions on numerous occasions, and has got it wrong tactically as many times. There's also no real point in comparing Adams with Sir Alex Ferguson, because the circumstances were completely different. When Sir Alex took over United they were mid-table in Division 1, with a pretty average team and he over time turned them into a great team. Right now Adams has on paper the best squad in the league, and this season is the best opportunity we have of getting back to the Premier League. If we don't go up this season, then some of our more crucial players (Hooper, Redmond, Ruddy) will simply leave for the Premier League, and with that our chances of going up significantly decrease. If that happens then we'll simply do exactly what happened last time we were relegated from the Premier League, and eventually get worse and worse until we're back in League 1. I really like Adams as a bloke, and he is Norwich through and through, and there's no doubt that he would be here for the long-term if he was to be successful. However, can we really afford to take that slim chance? I don't think so.

It's all very well saying that we've got 3 hall of famers in charge, but Bryan Gunn was also in the hall of fame, and if we hadn't of sacked him when we did then we might not of got out of League One in the first place, let alone the Premier League. 

Obviously I respect your opinion, but to be perfectly honest I don't really see how anyone who has seen the last two games, let alone the last 10, can still back Adams. As I said, I like him as a person, and I'm gutted he hasn't been able to make it work, but for a team like us, with a squad ours to be in the position we are in and playing how we are is just not acceptable no matter how you look at it. 

 

[lyb]

Chris Hughton hardly even experimented. He got a sweet spot early on and spent the rest of his time trying to replicate that formula. Adams on the other hand is trying different stuff, even if it may not work, but you'll never really know until you try. Don't forget that we have a lot of good players, but nobody could really say what the right formula was. We are scoring again and our new coach is a defensive midfielder by trade, and it seems to me that defensive reinforcement from midfield is the main missing ingredient, so give it time. 

 

[SussexYellow]

Emphatic in for me. He did enough in the first ten games to see there was something there. Yes, he's pretty inexperienced and in at the deep end, but he's got experience around him. But most importantly, I am simply sick of people taking the attitude that managers are the be all and end all, when it simply isn't the case. You just end up lurching from disaster to disaster for ages until you strike it lucky, do well for a while, and either they move on to better things or eventually hit a bump in the road and they get denounced as clueless as is so often the case and you're back to square one.

Adams is a good manager and the results were as good for the first 10 as they are bad from then. He's got a top notch coaching staff and people may see Phelan as a manager in waiting, he's also over 60 so I don't think we'll have that long out of him even assuming he does actually want the top job, which isn't necessarily so when you consider the added stress you get being a manager as opposed to an assistant or a coach, and if also I firmly believe he could have gone straight into a manager's job before now if he'd wanted that.

Adams is strongly tied to Norwich. He's getting his experience on the job, but he's got the previous assistant to the best in the business only just in through the door, Sir Alex Ferguson, who incidentally did not get instant results at Man U, but I bet they're glad they stuck. If Adams proves a success then he'll be with us for the long-term. That's a gamble, but it's a gamble that's streets ahead of all of the other options. If he's sacked then there's no going back and we'll be just another club that continues to flail from manager to manager to no avail as we did for so many years.

Besides, we've got three hall of famers in charge at the mo. Where's your sense of adventure?

Mike Phelan is over 60! No he's not, he is 52 and not far past his birthday,

 

[Canaryboy]

people may see Phelan as a manager in waiting

I 100% don't want to see Phelan given the job. I'm sure he is an excellent coach, but we'd potentially be making the same mistake twice. Not since Dave Stringer in 1987 have we been successful in giving a manager their first job. 

 

[Sharonb]

It is really depressing to see that we have picked up just one point since this thread was started, after the Forest game. I just don't see how this agony can continue.

I was actually optimistic after the Phelan appointment but it Is having the opposite effect - Adams looks like a dead man walking and most people I have spoken to have said it looks like he is a shoe-in for the managers job. Problem is, if Phelan is appointed he has no managerial experience either.

I don't want us to become a trainee manager academy. If we were in L1 on the verge of administration I can understand we may have to busk it with a rookie but now, why?

If Adams does go, the new person will surely want their own team in. And Phelan's appointment will be shorter lived than that of Joe Royle.

 

[Din]

Chris Hughton hardly even experimented. He got a sweet spot early on and spent the rest of his time trying to replicate that formula. Adams on the other hand is trying different stuff, even if it may not work, but you'll never really know until you try. Don't forget that we have a lot of good players, but nobody could really say what the right formula was. We are scoring again and our new coach is a defensive midfielder by trade, and it seems to me that defensive reinforcement from midfield is the main missing ingredient, so give it time. 

But Adams didn't even need to experiment in the first place initially. In pretty much all of the games earlier on in the season when we were doing well we were playing 4-2-3-1. However Adams was the one who changed it to 2 up front, with Wes on the wing, which time after time did not work and yet he persisted with it, and it's because of that that this bad run begun. Yes he has experimented since, and it's unfortunate that Hoolahan got injured when he did, but we were at our best when we were playing 4-2-3-1, and yet on this unbeaten run Adams has barely even tried that. Yes it's defence that's the main problem, but the fact was that today our attack was so lacklustre, and slow, that even if we had defended well we might now have even got the 3 points. 

 

[lyb]

But Adams didn't even need to experiment in the first place initially. In pretty much all of the games earlier on in the season when we were doing well we were playing 4-2-3-1. However Adams was the one who changed it to 2 up front, with Wes on the wing, which time after time did not work and yet he persisted with it, and it's because of that that this bad run begun. Yes he has experimented since, and it's unfortunate that Hoolahan got injured when he did, but we were at our best when we were playing 4-2-3-1, and yet on this unbeaten run Adams has barely even tried that. Yes it's defence that's the main problem, but the fact was that today our attack was so lacklustre, and slow, that even if we had defended well we might now have even got the 3 points. 

I go back to the Hughton reference there: He hit a good patch with 4-2-3-1 and stuck with 4-2-3-1 for a very long time without recapturing the spark that he got for that run. "He's been found out" and "No plan B" was the big criticism, yet when we've got someone who is trying things he 'doesn't know what he's doing'. 

Then this time round, when our run came to an end, the same cries came up: "He's been found out", "no other ideas" yet he has gone on to try quite a few combinations without recapturing it. 

I think our problem is very simple: When the players get on the back foot during a game a number of them panic and we come unstuck. That's a really really basic problem, but instilling the coolness of head to overcome it when a fair number have just been involved in a relegation. We do badly need a big character on the pitch as well, but fundamentally I don't think we have any problems that a simple hiring and firing of managers will fix. Quite frankly, it very rarely does in the long term. How many managers have we had and how many have been that successful? Pretty small proportion really.

 

[Din]

I go back to the Hughton reference there: He hit a good patch with 4-2-3-1 and stuck with 4-2-3-1 for a very long time without recapturing the spark that he got for that run. "He's been found out" and "No plan B" was the big criticism, yet when we've got someone who is trying things he 'doesn't know what he's doing'. 

Then this time round, when our run came to an end, the same cries came up: "He's been found out", "no other ideas" yet he has gone on to try quite a few combinations without recapturing it. 

I think our problem is very simple: When the players get on the back foot during a game a number of them panic and we come unstuck. That's a really really basic problem, but instilling the coolness of head to overcome it when a fair number have just been involved in a relegation. We do badly need a big character on the pitch as well, but fundamentally I don't think we have any problems that a simple hiring and firing of managers will fix. Quite frankly, it very rarely does in the long term. How many managers have we had and how many have been that successful? Pretty small proportion really.

But Hughton actually did try different formations, particularly in his second season. He played 4-1-4-1 on a few occasions, with Tettey sitting behind Fer and Howson. He also played 4-4-2 with Hooper and RvW up top on a couple of occasions, and 4-4-1-1 with Elmander just behind Hooper. The main criticism of him was that he didn't know how to change the system during games effectively, hence the label that he had no plan B. Earlier on in the season we had a successful formation and system, and yet Adams was the one that changed it, and has barely used it since, despite the fact that it's blatantly obvious that that's the bet option, which is why a lot of fans are saying that he 'doesn't know what he's doing'. The fact as well that Adams has tried several different formations on this run, says a hell of a lot. 

And I also don't believe that the fundamental problem is the players panicking when we're on the back foot. In a lot of our games this season we've actually been on the front foot at the point when the opposition team have scored. Bournemouth at home we were relatively comfortable for the whole of the first half, and yet ended up conceding just before half time. Charlton at home we dominated the whole game and yet conceded right at the end, and there are numerous other examples where we were on top in games and ended up losing/drawing. Fulham away, Leeds at home, Forest away, Brighton at home and Reading at home. If anything I'd say that it's when we're controlling the game, and on top that we concede the most goals. 

 

[Yellow Fever]

I've decided that I'm not going to get involved with the management wrangle all over again. For me, it spoils the football, so I'll post on other subjects, but not this one.

 

[Watling the Gnome]

It's November and we're five points off second place and six points off the top, so one more defeat wouldn't finish us off.  It might well finish Adams off, but that's another story.  I would agree that we need to win our next two home fixtures, which is where I saw the minimum 6 points coming from - 7 would be great.

Well, we've managed one point from six, so we're going to be well below par.

I think the time has come to say thanks Neil, I don't doubt you have tried your hardest, but it's time to appoint someone who understands how to manage a squad of senior professional footballers and who can arrange them into an effective system which is at least the sum of its parts.

 

[lyb]

I've decided that I'm not going to get involved with the management wrangle all over again. For me, it spoils the football, so I'll post on other subjects, but not this one.

Probably a good call. The hysterical naysayers will win out anyway, and if it goes complete t*ts up as a result they won't consider it has anything to do with them, they'll just blame the board, players et al as normal and deal with the next guy the same way and look back nostalgically on Adams like some are with Hughton now. What a farce.

 

[Watling the Gnome]

To be fair, we could appoint a new manager and win every match, and there would be some who would say "at least under Adams it wasn't so predictable and dull".

 

[TILLY]

Somebody said on here that Phelan is over 60 but he is in fact 52.

 

[splutcho]

Quite amazing that we're "hysterical" for not being happy with one win in ten with absolutely no signs of improvement.

 

[Jimmy smith]

Somebody said on here that Phelan is over 60 but he is in fact 52.

Yeah, I have a football game with him still playing! Man United Soccer!

 

[eatonparkboy]

Probably a good call. The hysterical naysayers will win out anyway, and if it goes complete t*ts up as a result they won't consider it has anything to do with them, they'll just blame the board, players et al as normal and deal with the next guy the same way and look back nostalgically on Adams like some are with Hughton now. What a farce.

If the club is in a sorry state on the pitch, who else is to blame but the board and management?

You seem to be almost blaming supporters who don't like what is happening. Of course there are people who react differently. And they are entitled to feel like that. Just as those with an apparent calmer attitude are entitled to feel the way they do.

Despite relegation last season, the club was in good shape. External debt free, wage bill reduced, guarantee of 26K home gates and 22K season ticket sales.

We believed we had a basis for an good season on the playing side. Some decent players left who should flourish in the Championship and an apparent abundance of youngsters who were ready to step up.

We just needed a new manager who could harness all this and get us playing winning and attractive football.

I was one who believed NA could be that man. It appears I was wrong. That's all. And I among others are showing their displeasure and frustration on here.

I have no problem with losing if I see a plan for the next few years. I would take another season in this division if it was the foundation for the future. But it has become increasingly obvious NA hasn't got it, not yet anyway.