Norwich City vs Barnsley(home) Saturday 18th November.

[GJP]

Yeah, I thought you'd go there. I mean I didn't make that argument about Lafferty. And as it goes I don't think Watkins is anything to write home about and Wildschut isn't the tidiest player ever BUT more suited to playing on the right of midfield than Stiepermann...yeah, definitely. 

If you prefer blind faith that's your call. I prefer reality.

 

[GJP]

Heres the view of someone who was playing in the game :-

http://www.pinkun.com/norwich-city/hanley-refuses-to-blame-barnsley-draw-on-half-time-tactical-switch-1-5286193

Lol. A player in the team backing his manager. I never thought I'd see that. Ever.

 

[morty]

Ah, the "I'm a realist" argument  We have faith in the manager to get the best out of the players available, its neither blind or otherwise. The reality is that he knows more about football and our players then either you or I do, I know that much.

 

[GJP]

Ah, the "I'm a realist" argument  We have faith in the manager to get the best out of the players available, its neither blind or otherwise. The reality is that he knows more about football and our players then either you or me do, I know that much.

Yes, the same sort of argument you've been mentioning in other posts.

He does know more about football than us, I totally agree. Doesn't mean he can't f*ck it up though. And it doesn't make people whingers or whatever to be able to spot when he has f*cked it up.

He's had two weeks to prepare for the game today against a fairly average side and we were well off it. Some of that has to sit with him. Otherwise he's getting a free ride.

Hopefully he, and the lads, can put it right Tuesday night and then again next Saturday.

 

[morty]

He didn't f*ck anything up, thats my point. And no one is giving him a free ride. He saw a change needed to be made, and he made it. We have spent the last couple of years whingeing about managers who were slow to make tactical changes, have we not?

You have said yourself that it wasn't working on the right, and it was obvious that we needed a second goal, so he went to three at the back, leaving Pinto a more attacking role down the right, which addresses both issues.

The players weren't good enough today, but I have no issues with Farke's game management.

 

[GJP]

The players weren't good enough today, but I have no issues with Farke's game management.

I think both parties were at fault. 

I'm pretty sure neither of us are changing the others mind. So at this point I think we just look forward to the next game.

 

[Canaryboy]

We could probably grab Jacob Murphy back on loan in January, not popular with Newcastle fans and clearly not ready for the Premier League! 

Would be a bit harsh on Wildschut to be pushed back down the pecking order though, I think we should be starting him more often, especially in the absence of Pritchard. Not always a world beater but at least the attempts to penetrate in the final third, he's got bigger balls than Josh Murphy. 

Agree with GJP that we've got a lack of players who can make things happen in the final third. Disagree that its Farke's fault.... Jacob Murphy was our biggest threat for most of last season, Pritchard came into his own in the final third of that season. Farke hasn't had either of them at his disposal. Add to that having to run Jerome into the ground because Nelson can't stay fit.... 

I do wonder whether Webber would prefer Josh to start over Wildschut because he's hopeful of converting him into some cash like his twin? 

 

[Dubai Mark]

Unfortunately I got to see only about 25 minutes of the first half due to problems with iFollow, and at that time i thought we were doing OK, once iFollow stopped following then the performance clearly went downhill.

Surprisingly I'm still relatively positive despite yesterday's disappointment, and I do believe that we will get better, and play better as the season progresses further.

I give DF some credit for at least trying a "Plan B" even though it clearly failed miserably, and also what I saw of Madison, yes he is a "class act" but needs someone other than Vrancic in midfield alongside him. Now, I'm going to mention Naismith.......and I know many will disagree, but I mentioned this weeks ago, and still believe that the ideal player to play in a side with Madison and Nelson in it is Naismith...he has the energy and also game awareness,and would play off Madison and behind or around Nelson...  hope it happens very soon, as for me this one change will make a huge difference......just a thought.....   

 

[GJP]

Given our slow, one paced midfield I'm not sure Naismith is the answer.

The sooner Pritchard and Tettey are back the better.

 

[morty]

Unfortunately I got to see only about 25 minutes of the first half due to problems with iFollow, and at that time i thought we were doing OK, once iFollow stopped following then the performance clearly went downhill.

Surprisingly I'm still relatively positive despite yesterday's disappointment, and I do believe that we will get better, and play better as the season progresses further.

I give DF some credit for at least trying a "Plan B" even though it clearly failed miserably, and also what I saw of Madison, yes he is a "class act" but needs someone other than Vrancic in midfield alongside him. Now, I'm going to mention Naismith.......and I know many will disagree, but I mentioned this weeks ago, and still believe that the ideal player to play in a side with Madison and Nelson in it is Naismith...he has the energy and also game awareness,and would play off Madison and behind or around Nelson...  hope it happens very soon, as for me this one change will make a huge difference......just a thought.....   

I could somewhat agree with that, we are desperately missing some forward drive in the midfield, like  Howson. Our attacking down the flanks became all too predictable yesterday, would have loved to have seen someone central just pick the ball up and drive at the defence. And yet again, our transition from defence to attack was just too slow, we need to play one or two passes instead of four or five. We need better quality of pass too, I assume thats why we have "cultured" players like Vrancic, but we really need someone with a bit more steel frankly. And yeah, Naismith could be the answer.

 

[hogesar]

Having slept on it, some key issues:

1) When people told me pre season that we kept hold of the better twin I told them they were wrong. I stand by it. Josh HAS to accept he is going to get hurt sometimes and pulling out of every 50/50 will always get fans on your back.

2) Maddison has flattered to deceive at home this season. He looks quality on the ball until you realise he is actually doing very little with it. Most of the time hes running back towards our goal and playing a safe pass to a deeper midfielder. Hes not getting his head up and looking straight for Oliveira or a wide option. Desperately need Pritchard back or Wes on form to push him.

3) I actually like Vrancic as a player. I also like Stiepermann although he was poor yesterday. But other than Josh, who could, but didnt, we've got no one starting who is going to scare the opposition back 4 with pace. We're at home and the 4-1-4-1 looks lovely and attacking on paper but its down to personnel and how often did any of Maddison, Vrancic, Stiepermann & Murphy run beyond Oliviera? 

4) Klose thinks hes a ball playing CB and takes responsibility for that but painfully gives the ball away far too often. There is a lack of movement in his defence.

5) I know Oliviera is everyones favourite but his wasteful shooting when hes off balance from 30 yards is frustrating. Saying that, at least he tried to give the Barnsley CBs a hard time whereas the last few games ive not seen that from Jerome.

We can be a work in progress, thats fine. But we shouldnt be outplayed by Barnsley at home.

 

[Canaryboy]

I've not seen anything of Vrancic to suggest he is a Championship quality player. 

Weird how it works out though isn't it... Vrancic actually came from the Bundesliga with fanfare and doesn't look Championship quality, Zimmermann came out of the 4th tier and we were told he'd be backup, and looks like he can actually mix it in this league 

 

[Canaryboy]

1) When people told me pre season that we kept hold of the better twin I told them they were wrong. I stand by it. Josh HAS to accept he is going to get hurt sometimes and pulling out of every 50/50 will always get fans on your back.

They are both wimps. Jacob Murphy was always dodging 50/50's, hiding from the ball, and could be taken out of a game entirely by one tough tackle early on. I only went to away games last season and never saw him have a good game, apparently some great performances at Carrow Road but never did it on the road. 

Neither of them are Premier League because they don't have the bottle, and perhaps we are to blame for that... wrapped them in cotton wool for too long? Should have kicked them about a bit in senior training at an earlier age? 

Either of them could achieve a lot in the game if they had the determination and fearlessness of Bellamy, but they just don't. They are probably as technically able as Eadie, Huckerby and Bellamy... but all three of those had bottle, the Murphy's often look like rabbits caught in the headlights.

But perhaps that is the point, perhaps Webber thinks he can get somebody to bite on Josh this January and that's why he's getting played... Webber wants to convert him into cash so we're keeping him in the shop window, even if Wildschut should be in the team on merit? 

Personally I'd be happy for us to sell Murphy and then use the money to try and pay off Jarvis and partially pay off Naismith, wouldn't be a popular bit of business but a very sensible one considering the gravity of our situation next season. 

 

[hogesar]

I agree Jacob did shirk his fair share of '50/50's, but at the same time he had better upper body physicality and could, if needed, hold the ball up a little against most full backs. Josh is too late to the party to even be in position to do it and when he is, often seems off balance or, harsh maybe, not trying enough.

 

[GJP]

Josh is a bottler, there's no doubt about that.

But his movement is quite disappointing. He often takes up positions where it's hard to find him which says to me that he might be hiding from responsibility.

 

[Canaryboy]

You aren't being harsh on Josh, you are being too generous to Jacob.

Perhaps its because I only went to away games last year that I consider him a bottle job... 6 games, no impact at all in any of them, hiding from the ball at Barnsley away and being subbed at half time against Sheffield Wednesday away after one of the most pathetic performances I've ever seen from a Norwich player (up there with Theo vs Colchester, Francis vs Fulham, and Steve Walsh vs whoever he made his debut against). 

He must have been a completely different player at Carrow Road.

If I were being diplomatic I'd call then 'confidence players', but what I really mean is that they are wimpy man children. 

 

[Fenway Frank]

Part of the problem is we’re not using any of our players that have a bit of pace the right way. There’s no doubt Josh had a stinker but he did make a few runs across the Barnsley back four wanting a ball over the top that never came. We just don’t stretch teams at the moment by playing the ball behind, which is also why Jerome doesn’t look like doing anything either as we’re not playing to their strengths. Thing is, if we’re not going to play to their strengths then they might as well not be on the pitch.

 

[morty]

Part of the problem is we’re not using any of our players that have a bit of pace the right way. There’s no doubt Josh had a stinker but he did make a few runs across the Barnsley back four wanting a ball over the top that never came. We just don’t stretch teams at the moment by playing the ball behind, which is also why Jerome doesn’t look like doing anything either as we’re not playing to their strengths. Thing is, if we’re not going to play to their strengths then they might as well not be on the pitch.

Quality of passing from central midfield / distribution has been very poor. Annoying thing is that we know they can do it, when it has clicked into place this season it has been very effective. Article on the stinkun this morning saying that Farke says they need to buck their ideas up, I agree with him.