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Norwich City vs Brum ( away) Saturday 27th August.

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B

Bill and ben

New Member
Well there is going to no hiding room soon.

if Neil gets the players he wants he will be the architect of his own fate. If he doesn't we'll see his ability to motivate and adapt.  

Either way I'm not sure it would be right to blame the board for any failings. Neil has spent a lot of money getting the squad to the state in which it now is. He has also let a lot players go at the same time. If the squad is missing a few vital links it's not the result of a single transfer window failure.

that said we should have the quality to see us through and every season has down periods as well as ups.
 
eatonparkboy

eatonparkboy

New Member
I don't mind spending a season in the Championship if it means rebuilding and bringing in new tactics. I don't go along with those who say that would be a disaster. Middlesbrough certainly bounced back after heartache.

However I am unconvinced about AN's style or tactics. They seem stubborn, pedantic and off the back of a fag packet at times. Is Alan Irvine here as a yes man as I don't see any difference in approach from last season.

Adams was hounded from the start and it didn't take long before the alarm bells demanded change. I think AN must look at his tactics and style before it is too late to bring say . . . Steve Bruce.
 
Din

Din

Well-Known Member
Good job I waited to get home to write this, as if I had done it after the game finished it would be very different because I have to say that was the first time in a while that I've left a Norwich match genuinely fuming.

I haven't ever really doubted Neil's position in his 18 months or so here, but at the moment I have to say for the first time I'm beginning to lose my patience. Starting Naismith up front was an utterly ridiculous decision. He hasn't got the pace to run in behind, and he hasn't got the size or strength to win aerial balls or hold up play against their centre backs (plus he doesn't even look like he's bothered anyway). Obviously it's easy to say in hindsight but ultimately he's the one who's paid to make these decisions and he got it so wrong. Nobody would ever consider playing Hoolahan up front, so I don't see why you would consider Naismith who's essentially a right footed version of Wes. Of course Jerome's injury wouldn't have been as disastrous had we not spent so much time p*ssing around signing a new striker and not have to rely on attacking midfielders to play up front. Even if Alex Neil doesn't favour him and he's not quite at the level we want our strikers to be at, Lafferty should've started today.

The only two players that actually looked interested and were trying to make things happen were Hoolahan and Jacob Murphy. It wasn't always coming off for them, particularly first half, but at least they were having a go. The sooner we get certain players back from injury the better, notably Pinto, who will come in for Whittaker who surprisingly was utterly terrible. Dived in stupidly to try and win the ball in the build up to the first goal, and as a result he missed the ball and it ran through to a Birmingham player who crossed it in and they scored. What the f*ck he was doing for the 2nd goal I have no idea. Ridiculous challenge. We need Pinto back quickly and then pray to God he doesn't get injured again. Canos wasn't really in the game, the whole back 4 had nightmares, McGovern arguably could've done better for the first goal and Tettey and Howson didn't do anything productive.

It will hopefully be different when we get Pinto, Olsson, Pritchard, Jerome, Dorrans and Ruddy all back from injury, as well as a couple of new signings in. But at the moment just 5 games in I would be lying if I said I'm not slightly worried. We have no recognisable style, haven't been picking up the results we would like, and have top players under-performing. No need to panic or anything like that at all yet, but so far it hasn't been brilliant.
 
F

Fimbo

Member
I didn't see any of the game. But like some others this feels like a bit of a turning point for me with AN. Did he really think an out of form midfielder was best choice striker? Or was he playing politics with the board. Either way, it's a yellow card from me.
 
morty

morty

Moderator
Staff member
Sounds like today was an absolute shocker.

But let's keep things in context, we have lost one game this season.
 
Canaryboy

Canaryboy

Well-Known Member
I didn't see any of the game. But like some others this feels like a bit of a turning point for me with AN. Did he really think an out of form midfielder was best choice striker? Or was he playing politics with the board. Either way, it's a yellow card from me.
I need to see an "in form" Naismith before I can identify an "out of form" one, right now it just feels like we've massively overpaid for a bang average player and it feels like he thinks he is doing us a big favour by lowering himself to us (after we'd had to beg him to come). 
 
S

SussexYellow

Active Member
Saturday was a hugely disappointing result, but it really only confirmed what we all suspected, with no alternative to Jerome we were going to struggle in his absence.

The question has been asked as to why no Lafferty - now I am going to totally hypothesise here, but possibly the manager was asked not to start him or chose not to start him to minimise the risk of injury with a view to what may happen before the transfer deadline. In those circumstances, like it or not, Naismith is the closest we have to a no.9.

The midfield put behind him does on reflection look lightweight, I would have preferred something more robust. But the young lads had played well midweek and the manager chose to go on a wing and a prayer. Unfortunately the prayers were not answered.

One away defeat in the Championship in what now must be 20ish games is hardly a bad record, and certainly not one that warrants the critiscism against AN that I have read in places. 

The Championship is a marathon not a sprint, and we know only too well that it is a bumpy ride.

OTBC
 
eatonparkboy

eatonparkboy

New Member
Saturday was a hugely disappointing result, but it really only confirmed what we all suspected, with no alternative to Jerome we were going to struggle in his absence.

The question has been asked as to why no Lafferty - now I am going to totally hypothesise here, but possibly the manager was asked not to start him or chose not to start him to minimise the risk of injury with a view to what may happen before the transfer deadline. In those circumstances, like it or not, Naismith is the closest we have to a no.9.

The midfield put behind him does on reflection look lightweight, I would have preferred something more robust. But the young lads had played well midweek and the manager chose to go on a wing and a prayer. Unfortunately the prayers were not answered.

One away defeat in the Championship in what now must be 20ish games is hardly a bad record, and certainly not one that warrants the critiscism against AN that I have read in places. 

The Championship is a marathon not a sprint, and we know only too well that it is a bumpy ride.

OTBC
Would anyone in their right minds jeopardise three valuable points to get rid of a player? Possibly this club yes.

I won't repeat what most have said about the tactics (lack of),style (lack of) or selections (barmy). One area that is important is lacking as well.

I watched the highlights of the Coventry game and it appeared to me that Maddison is a very good dead ball deliverer. We looked threatening every time he put it in against admittedly a lower league team.

Surely he can't be much worse than our matchday captain at the moment yet would bring something extra. Listening on CanaryWorld, we had numerous set pieces yet they either failed to deliver or threaten. Chris Goreham kept getting excited about corners but it was shelling peas for Birmingham.

A big percentage of goals come from this area of the game but is a barren area for us. And also we have played six competitive games and conceded two penalties. That isn't good odds. So every third game we gift the opposition.
 
Canaryboy

Canaryboy

Well-Known Member
The question has been asked as to why no Lafferty - now I am going to totally hypothesise here, but possibly the manager was asked not to start him or chose not to start him to minimise the risk of injury with a view to what may happen before the transfer deadline.
Wouldn't make sense to then bring him on though, when he could have put Carlton Morris on the bench. Also, Lafferty has already said that he wants out so Alex Neil could have just told him this straight. Judging by Lafferty's tweets he hasn't read the script.

It is a bit of a lose-lose situation for Alex Neil though, if he'd started Lafferty and he'd played well and scored we'd have either have had people using it as a stick to beat Alex Neil with all season if he either joins Cardiff next week or stays and is a fringe player and becomes the next Becchio ("why the hell don't we play Becchio", etc). 

But if the plan is to get rid of Lafferty then it still makes no sense not to just play Carlton Morris. People would rather see an opportunity given to a kid, even if he has a poor game, than a midfielder up front. The last time I can remember a manager using a midfielder up front it was Glenn Roeder and Darel Russell  :rolleyes:
 
S

SussexYellow

Active Member
EPB, Maddison's effectiveness in taking set pieces did not escape me either. I agree we needed a more robust midfield, and with hindsight there could have been better options.

The whole Lafferty saga is a mystery, but bottom line is I do not think the manager wants him. Best for all if he moves on. Carlton Morris played on Thursday and could have been carrying a knock or two.
 
eatonparkboy

eatonparkboy

New Member
We could serialise the Lafferty saga. Obviously the deal with Huddersfield ought to have gone through and he would not be here.

I am not incensed by the Naismith up front situation as much as AN's obsession with one up front. He only puts two up when we are losing with ten minutes to go. If he thinks that is the only way to score, why doesn't he start like that. We are no longer playing Man City and Chelsea. We are playing Barnsley and Birmingham. Respect them yes but tell your players they are better and send them out setup to score and entertain. AN needs to grow a pair because at the moment he is heading for a fall playing this way so he might as well give this squad its head and let them score, they can't defend anyway.
 
Din

Din

Well-Known Member
One away defeat in the Championship in what now must be 20ish games is hardly a bad record, and certainly not one that warrants the critiscism against AN that I have read in places. 
Thing is though that one defeat has come off the back of a relegation season. I backed Neil all of last season partly because he did a phenomenal job to get us up in the first place and partly because on the whole our relegation wasn't primarily his fault, it was down to the lack of Premier League quality in our squad. This season however the quality will not be the issue. This is undoubtedly a difficult league, but even if we weren't to sign anyone with the squad we have we should be gaining promotion so if we're not playing well enough to do that it is primarily going to be down to Neil.

As you say though, it's a marathon not a sprint and there is no reason to panic at all after just 5 games, and I am firmly right behind Neil still, however Saturday was probably the first time since he's been here in which he got something so drastically wrong.
 
hogesar

hogesar

Well-Known Member
Whittaker was an absolute joke in that game. Don't care what anyone says, Martin would have been better defensively. Always has been.
 
G

GJP

Well-Known Member
Even though I disagree (for example Martin was crap against Brum 2 years ago) I don't really get how we have gone from freezing out Whittaker while wedging Martin into the team however possible to starting Whittaker when Martin is available.
 
hogesar

hogesar

Well-Known Member
I think Whittaker has, generally speaking, looked a better attacking fullback than Russ but i'm not sure he's ever looked the better defender (saying that, the unbeaten run under Hughton's reign he was very good).

But I agree with what you're saying - the biggest issue for me is Whittaker has looked to be struggling since the last pre-season game and every cameo appearance he's made since he's also struggled - If Whittaker was playing well and in form then i'd have no issue with him playing ahead of RM.
 
Canaryboy

Canaryboy

Well-Known Member
Even though I disagree (for example Martin was crap against Brum 2 years ago) I don't really get how we have gone from freezing out Whittaker while wedging Martin into the team however possible to starting Whittaker when Martin is available.
When we freezed out Whittaker it was mainly Wisdom or Pinto who played instead wasn't it? 

It is clear that Russell Martin is now our 4th choice centre back and 3rd choice right back.

Although that raises another question, which is why did Alex Neil hand him a two year contract extension. If he hadn't then Russell Martin would have been out of contract this summer. 
 
Canaryboy

Canaryboy

Well-Known Member
Ivo Pinto is clearly far better than either of them at right back these days, so lets just be grateful that we've got him to come back into the team. 
 
G

GJP

Well-Known Member
I doubt Martin is that far down the pecking order. I suspect he'd be in ahead of Bennett if he hadn't been injured pre season.
 
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