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Norwich City vs Hull City (away) Saturday 10th March.

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Canaryboy

Canaryboy

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#21
I think Hull deserved that win to be honest, ignoring the merits of each penalty decision.

Created far more good chances, about 5 in the first 10 minutes, and I miss the days we'd play at a tempo like that. We struggled to cope with their tempo in the first half, walked through us. Jackson Irvine was great for them out wide even though he's usually a centre mid, we could do with him in our squad instead of Marley Watkins to be honest.
 
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gerryinromania

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#22
I realise that Zimm was ill, but where is Ragget? Have we dumped the 3 at the back now, thought we were doing quite well with that system. Oliveira and Watkins are pretty cabbage from what I can see
 
Canaryboy

Canaryboy

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#24
I feel like some of you clearly ignored my invitations sent out 3 months ago for the "Nelson aint actually that good" party.
Sorry, I was too busy worrying about whether we'd be playing Russell Martin again.

(Although I think it was mainly the summer when people were worried about us selling him, less people bothered in January as long as we spent the proceeds on a replacement).

A lot of people say that he doesn't get service, but part of the problem is that he doesn't have the close control / first touch in tight situations. We play the ball to his feet in the box and his touch takes the ball half a yard too far away from him. Time and time again.

Still ridiculous that we sometimes resort to the high ball up to Nelson though, plenty of strikers are rubbish in the air.

He also seldom strives to get on the end of stuff. At corners you've got Klose, Hanley and Zimmermann desperate to get on the end of stuff, and Nelson's a striker and doesn't get his head in there. Heading may be a weakness, but no excuse for not trying to do something even if its just a little flick or running towards the ball to drag a defender away from whoever ends up sticking their bonce on it.

In terms of his all round game there is no way that he's a Premier League striker. A team may be able to play to his strengths and get him scoring at this level, but he doesn't have the all round game to lead the line for us in this system.

I think Jerome was actually a bit closer to what we need than Nelson :rolleyes:
 
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GJP

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#25
I realise that Zimm was ill, but where is Ragget? Have we dumped the 3 at the back now, thought we were doing quite well with that system. Oliveira and Watkins are pretty cabbage from what I can see
Would seem Raggett is not up to it.
 
Dubai Mark

Dubai Mark

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#26
What a weird game it was, we could have been three down yet we led 3-1, that penalty award for Hull's second, the way our defence who have looked very decent over recent months lost the plot, an amazingly bad referee, Nelson is given yet another chance to wear the shirt and shows he's not fit to wear it anymore, a player who had been not well in the run up before the match notches a hat-trick, he's an absolute star...........I actually really enjoyed it despite our, as a friend of mine put it "keystone cops performance".

Now, please do not call me a happy clapper, but in addition to Maddison, I didnt think Hernandez had a bad game, and Lewis was nowhere near as bad as some comments I have read elsewhere, also I thought some of our passages of play were decent......until we kept giving the ball away.

We really missed Zimmerman, the most improved player I have seen over such a short space of time whilst at Norwich City, also missed the back three set-up............and I actually thought Murphy had a decent match the week before and he should have started.

So, that was definitely a step back in our transition/rebuilding, but I dont think its huge to be honest......that is, if like me you have decided that we are building for next season and this season we really never have had a chance of reaching the play-off's (well other than a couple of false dawns that sucked me in).

This one defeat hasnt knocked me, these types of games happen..........but, I'm still trying to get over the fact that a proven striker was not secured in the January window, even on loan, now that was a major balls up!
 
Canaryboy

Canaryboy

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#27
Would seem Raggett is not up to it.
I wouldn't write off Raggatt and Srbeny until they've been through a full farking pre-season. Its a huge jump up in quality for Raggatt, and in physicality for Srbeny. Wouldn't surprise me if the latter spends the summer trying to bulk up a bit (which Van Wolfswinkel didn't fancy doing).

Raggatt might have been a bit lazy in training though, same reason Edwards hasn't been given his debut.

I actually like this approach from Farke... don't train hard then you don't play, do it one too many times and I let the fans now. Refreshing.

Buy into Farke or be banished. Its stuff like this which makes me want to wait until after another full pre-season and some Farke influenced summer squad tweaking before I write off the webbelution.
 
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GJP

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#28
I'm not writing Raggett off but I think the signs are probably more negative than they are positive. Farke has chosen to abandon his favoured 3 CBs rather than put him in there.

And you'd sorta think if the lad is looking the business then he gets put in even if he needs a bit of tidying up.

Having said all that, the way things are going even if he isn't much special we'll probably need him next season.
 
Canaryboy

Canaryboy

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#29
What does this say about our transfer policy then?

We haven't seen James Husband kick a ball since December, and that last game was his first start for 6 weeks.

Marley Watkins has only started twice in 2018.

Franke was written off after about a month.

Stiepermann hasn't started since December either.

All of these players are here on 3 year deals. Raggett is another player on a 3 year contract.

If we are signing lots of players on three year deals who Farke doesn't consider good enough to play, then is something going wrong somewhere? Two of those players are believed to have arrived for a seven figure fee (Franke and Husband).

We keep hearing that we can't afford this, and can't afford that, but we can't really afford to be dishing out 3 year deals to substandard players either can we?

Applying 'relativity' and I don't see much difference between paying £8m for Naismith in the Premier League and paying £2.5m for Franke on parachute payments, if those fees are accurate as believed, both are transfers that we desperately needed to be successful.

Its thinking along those lines which really make me question whether Webber is the god send that many seem to think he is. We'll be cutting ties with a heavy loss on quite a few Webber players somewhere down the line...

Its probably still really early for Raggatt, its a huge leap up the divisions and he'll need a lot of educating... but Watkins and Husband have already played a fair bit of football in this league, and if we were persevering with Franke then he'd be here being coached out of his weaknesses or on loan to Rotherham or something to adjust to English football?

We all cheered as Webber released a load of deadwood, but isn't he accruing new deadwood at a pretty alarming rate?
 
Canaryboy

Canaryboy

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#30
In the summer Farke found out that Jamal Lewis is an excellent player, we signed Husband on a 3 year deal. In August we signed Stiepermann (before Lewis got injured) , who came in at left back when Husband had a terrible start.

But we must have signed Stieppermann due to his ability in another position or role, because having 3 left backs isn't joined up thinking.

So where is Stiepperman supposed to play? What position did we sign him to play in? And why isn't he playing there? Just because we've signed him, on a three year deal, and then worked out that he isn't actually good enough for our XI?

That is no different at all to signing and then being stuck with McGovern is it? What is different about this regime exactly?

Questions like this probably need to be asked... why do we have 3 left backs, 2 signed in the summer, but only 1 right back, and if Stiepermann isn't a left back... where does he play, and when is he going to get a chance there?
 
Din

Din

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#31
Calmed down now after spending most of Saturday absolutely livid (not helped by the fact that I then had to watch Villa beat Wolves 4-1 with my Villa supporting flatmate) but that performance was simply unacceptable. Despite our league position our defence this season has generally been very good and Klose and Hanley are two very good centre backs. So to let relegation-threatened Hull score 4 goals against us, albeit two of them from the spot, was abysmal. The first penalty is a bit soft but Lewis gets the wrong side of their player and is clumsy when going to challenge him. Having watched the 2nd penalty I am still none the wiser as to why it was given. The only thing I can think is that the ref has seen Lewis pull Abel Hernandez, but Hernandez doesn't go down or appeal, plus the ball is nowhere near him. I don't care enough about that though because we didn't deserve anything the way we played. Hull clearly wanted it more and merited their win.

Maddison is simply far too good for this division. Ok two of his goals were penalties but he was a constant threat all game and the way he mugged off the Hull defence for his 2nd was beautiful. Only other positive I can take was that Onel Hernandez was decent again. He was also a threat down our right hand side and obviously won the 2nd penalty and was then unlucky with a chance later on. The rest of the team there's not much to say. Marley Watkins just isn't good enough. Games just pass him by with him either having no impact or a negative impact. He came on for the 2nd half against Sheffield Wednesday and put in a 7 out of 10 performance. Apart from that I haven't seen anything to suggest that he isn't sh*t in the 21 games he's played this season.

As for Nelson Oliveira, as I said Saturday, his performance was absolutely scandalous. EVERY time he got the ball he gave it away. He would constantly try and take on 2 or 3 Hull players rather than play a simple 10 yards pass, and he'd lose possession every time. My Villa supporting mate even said to me at about the hour mark that he doesn't know why he's still on the pitch, and I didn't either. Srbeny clearly isn't ready yet but I'd put him straight in for the Barnsley game on Tuesday and tell Nelson to buck his ideas up or he'll be training by himself. It wasn't just a standard bad performance like a lot of the players put in, you could see he just didn't care or have any interest.

Another thing I'll say before I drag this out to a small novel, is that I would've preferred to have seen Vrancic on when Leitner was forced off injured. Leitner and Vrancic are relatively similar and that they can see those forward passes that other players can't necessarily. I like Reed but he just isn't that player and with him and Tettey in defensive midfield it just feels like we've got no-one to link the defence and attack. Also another thing that worries me is that after a very bright start Jamal Lewis' performances are starting to dip a bit. It is obviously natural for young players but if his form dips enough you have to start wondering about his place in the team, despite our other left back options.
 
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Din

Din

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#32
As for some of the points raised above:

I do think it's a bit odd that Farke chose to abandon the 3 at the back system, that had been working so well for us away from home, rather than throw Raggett in. Does suggest there's more depth to it rather than he's just not quite ready for Championship football yet. Even if he was performing at the level he was at Lincoln you'd think he could fill in with Klose and Hanley alongside him. He is mainly a signing I guess for next season so hopefully the problems are all sorted out by then.

And despite all I've said, I do still think Nelson is a very good striker at this level. He's not Premier League standard but he is very capable of scoring a lot of goals at this level. A mixture of a severe lack of confidence, a serious attitude problem, and playing a system that doesn't suit him, is contributing to him being a shadow of the player we've seen at times before. I don't think he'll ever be a very good striker again for Norwich City, but it wouldn't surprise me if he moved on next season and started banging them in again. I think he definitely has ability, but quite frankly, he's a bit of a c*nt and has decided that he's not going to bust a gut again for this football club. Hopefully he can at least sort himself out a little bit temporarily, score the odd goal between now and the end of the season, and then he can leave, which is in best interests for all parties.
 
Rocky and Wolfswinkel

Rocky and Wolfswinkel

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#33
I'll stick in my two pennies worth as I went on Saturday, will give the usual rating out of 10!

Gunn – 6 – Made some good saves, but a couple of spills as well, couldn’t really do anything about the goals, was going absolutely ape at the defence and rightly so.
Lewis – 4 – Probably the poorest game I’ve seen him have for Norwich, the Hull first penalty was right in front of the away fans and he just shoved the player in the back, absolutely needless and silly, struggled.
Hanley – 5 – Some might say that 5 is harsh, but Hull kept making the same long ball through the middle continuously and we couldn’t cope, seemed to be a massive gap between him and Klose, maybe too used to playing 3 CB’s? He did make some good challenges however as Hanley does every game.
Klose – 5 – He’s had a bit of a mare recently. Continuously gets caught out time after time, much of the same at Hull, he does rely on Hanley to get him out of schtuck, I think his positioning has been week of late as well, I think I saw on twitter Klose’s average position which was miles out of where it should be (hence the big gap between the center halves) he seems to like the left a lot, maybe to cover Lewis?
Reed – 5 – He had a torrid time at RB, it would have been a 4 but I thought he did okay when Leitner had to come off injured for Pinto. Struggles to get forward, I like him, but I don’t feel like he’s living up to the potential that people thought he had when he first signed.
Leitner – 5 – He was doing okay until he had to come off, unfortunate.
Tettey – 5 – Did his usual Tettey thing, put some good challenges in, gave the ball away a bit, did he get an obligatory yellow?
Hernandez – 6 – He looked one of our better players, can take a man on, loves to put his foot on, however! It is evident to me that he hates being in front of goal, there were many opportunities where the fans were screaming for him to have a shot but he opts for a pass, also missed a 1-1 sitter.
Watkins – 4 – He really is the new scapegoat, think I saw him play a good pass.
Maddison – 7- I didn’t think he actually looked as good as he has been recently, doing his usual thing, twisting and turning, causing all kinds of trouble. We simply wouldn’t score any goals without him at the moment, as Hanley wrote on his matchball “At least £25 million”
Oliviera – 5 – Always opts for a cheeky little flick rather than holding the ball up. He did okay, but can’t really remember anything that stood out for me with him, won a penalty. Still didn’t score a goal.

Subs
Murphy – 4 – Farke looked to Murphy for some inspiration, pace and end product, he didn’t deliver any of that, summed up when he tried to take on the full back, and just got easily muscled off the ball.
Hoolahan – 5 – I still love him, didn’t have much time to impact, but I think we have seen the best of him, glad he is acting as a mentor to Maddison.
Pinto - 4 – Looked rusty, didn’t really do much, pushed on quite well but needs a better understanding with Onel.
 
hogesar

hogesar

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#35
That is big problem with Josh, his inability to look after the ball. We've already seen that Hernandez knows how to use his body to both win and protect the ball but with Josh there's never any confidence he can do that.
Agreed, and when we've played Oliveira recently with Murphy mostly just off of him, it's not worked because neither do enough to keep hold of the ball, and our attacks break down far too easily.
 
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GJP

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#36
That is the thing. Oliveira likes to flick the ball around the corner and have little link ups with players close to him. We just don't play like it. Which is where Pritch would have been good because he can operate in tight spaces and he has a little burst of pace.
 
hogesar

hogesar

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#37
That is the thing. Oliveira likes to flick the ball around the corner and have little link ups with players close to him. We just don't play like it. Which is where Pritch would have been good because he can operate in tight spaces and he has a little burst of pace.
Yeah, Oliveira likes the low % stuff, basically. And still tries to do it, even though it doesn't work in this system.
 
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GJP

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#38
But you have to try to get the best out of your most dangerous players and whether you rate him much or not the reality is that Olivieira is one of our most dangerous players and certainly our most dangerous striker.
 
hogesar

hogesar

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#39
But you have to try to get the best out of your most dangerous players and whether you rate him much or not the reality is that Olivieira is one of our most dangerous players and certainly our most dangerous striker.
He is when he's confident / enjoying football or whatever. But this season he has been more trouble (regardless of where you apportion blame) than he has useful for us this season. I completely understand we're not playing to his strengths. That doesn't excuse some (most, in my opinion, but not in others) of his performances, or his inability to do basic things instead of the flicks etc.
 
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GJP

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#40
He is when he's confident / enjoying football or whatever. But this season he has been more trouble (regardless of where you apportion blame) than he has useful for us this season. I completely understand we're not playing to his strengths. That doesn't excuse some (most, in my opinion, but not in others) of his performances, or his inability to do basic things instead of the flicks etc.
I agree. He should have been doing better.

But not playing to his strengths hasn't done us any favours.
 
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