Norwich City vs Reading(Home) Saturday 8th April.

[hogesar]

I'd disagree that Martin is 'washed up'. He's probably been our best CB this season, which certainly isn't saying much but even with him and Klose on Saturday I thought Martin looked the most assured and actually started a few attacks purely from his distribution.

 

[morty]

I disagree on Martin too, and it seems he is a better CB than a RB, in so much that we rely on pacy, attacking fullbacks, and he isn't.

That was the best display from Tettey in a long time, against Huddersfield his only answer seemed to be to foul runners, on Saturday he played the role perfectly, anticipating runners from midfield, and covering back when the fullbacks pushed on.

We massively benefited from facing a team that came to play football combined with, basically, no one having a bad game, closest thing was that Murphy had one of his quieter ones.

Maybe the players were a bit conscious of Webber sat in the stands too, who incidentally has a full set of coaching badges under his belt, so I assume he knows his stuff when he is watching a game / individual players.

 

[Canaryboy]

There is absolutely nothing to gain from constantly slating Russell Martin, because he's not one we can release this summer. 

I quite like the bloke, he actually cares about the club and what people don't realise when they get irritated by his post match interviews is that he is almost certainly sometimes getting in front of the camera because other players don't have the balls and aren't sticking their hand up (or can't get on the coach / in their cars fast enough). 

He may have his limitations as a player but he definitely got the right character. In an ideal world he'd be a backup player next season and we'd see him about as often as we've see Whittaker this season, but that's far more often than I'd like to see Bassong or Turner, and with Bennett out of contract this summer I don't think we should have any appetite to get rid of Russell Martin quite yet.

Think he could survive here for at least one more season yet, perhaps put him through his first coaching badge next season? Definitely has to be a good influence on the younger players in terms of how to conduct yourself on and off the pitch. 

 

[Canaryboy]

Considering everyone is talking about a clearout this summer, this win just muddies the waters. Maybe we don't need a clearout and the only problem was AN's cluelessness. Or maybe we don't get another win for the rest of the season and everyone is saying we need a clearout again.

I still think the clear out is needed, because its a squad game and the lineup which we saw against Reading didn't include much by way of our dead wood did it.

That's been our problem all season, we could name our best 11 players when all are fit and could quite easily say "that's one of the best 2 or 3 sides in the league", but we can't say that about our squad when our backup left back is a right back, and we're one injury or suspension away from having to use Lafferty, and when naming our best XI requires us to leave an £8m player on the bench. 

But we pretty much only really need to release the out of contract players and replace them decent younger players, and have a go at shifting Naismith, McGovern and Andreu, and we're there. 

7 or 8 out (most just released),5 or 6 in to replace them + a couple of youngsters coming into the first team squad. That's not really drastic. That's a "reconfiguration" really. 

 

[Canaryboy]

See, I quite like Dorrans Keckers and see him as a decent all round centre mid option, and think that Rudd is a very good keeper, shows how subjective this all is! 

 

[ZLF]

We are great going forward as saturday, brentford etc show; especially against footballing sides   however we simply are not resilient enough in midfield or at the back,  either physically or mentally (against good opponents,  those that compete or when we go behind).    

We need to perform in 46 games,  not just 10-12, and against all styles of opponents,  and away from home.

Martin is ok as a centre back at this level but we do need better as he has been found out too often,  if he stays as on with 2 better options than him that is great,  but i am unconvinced as a first choice CB - which makes his position as captain difficult.  He is a great ambassador for the club, but for me thats not enough to start;  for me allowing his to leave is less about his ability and more about changing the costa del colney comfort and apathy wrecking havoc on performances.

I like both howson and dorrans,  but neither give the physical competitiveness we need in most games in this league (howson has clear quality but for this season only I do think Dorrans has been the better player when fit) keep both by all means,  but starting both makes us vulnerable - especially wth Jacob, maddison, pritchard also on most teams start list.

It will be a tough balancing act;   on paper the squad is much stronger than most of the likely replacements;   its just the combination has not translated from paper to reality.  

A shake is needed and if it needs 15 new players (as per huddersfield) and the loss of a fan favourite so be it. 

 

[Din]

One thing that worries me as well to be honest is that there are going to be lower half Premier League teams sniffing around Pritchard. Burnley and Swansea were supposedly interested in January, and I don't think if someone similar came in this summer we could blame him for wanting to leave. Clearly his signing was much more pushed by the board than Neil, hence why if he had one below average game he would be immediately switched back out for Naismith, even when Naismith has two or three consecutively bad games. If we want to go up next season Pritchard will be key, arguably more so than Wes. He has 6 goals and 8 assists this season despite never having a proper run in the team and often being used as a player to come off the bench for the last 20 minutes.

I would love to see an attacking trio of Pritchard - Hoolahan - Maddison in behind Oliveira in one of our final games. All very similar players but all clearly talented so I'd love to see if they could link up and bounce of each other and really cause problems for the opposition. That said maybe they are all too similar, maybe a pacey outlet that Jacob or Wildschut gives us is quite important.

On Martin, as back-up he'd be fine. Clearly a big dressing room influence and one of a few players that you know however limited he is would give his all for the team. Whether he stays or not we're going to need a whole new starting back line, with the exception of Pinto (and hopefully Dijks, though I highly doubt he'll stay). I also really like Dorrans, don't know why he's been put in the same category as the Naismiths and Laffertys of this world. 

 

[GJP]

On Martin, as back-up he'd be fine. Clearly a big dressing room influence 

A lot is made of that and if you go on Pinkun there are one or two people who will tell you at length about what an incredible pro Russ is and about all the respect he has etc etc

I would ask where exactly all that has got us the last couple of seasons...

 

[morty]

One thing that worries me as well to be honest is that there are going to be lower half Premier League teams sniffing around Pritchard. Burnley and Swansea were supposedly interested in January, and I don't think if someone similar came in this summer we could blame him for wanting to leave. Clearly his signing was much more pushed by the board than Neil, hence why if he had one below average game he would be immediately switched back out for Naismith, even when Naismith has two or three consecutively bad games. If we want to go up next season Pritchard will be key, arguably more so than Wes. He has 6 goals and 8 assists this season despite never having a proper run in the team and often being used as a player to come off the bench for the last 20 minutes.

I would love to see an attacking trio of Pritchard - Hoolahan - Maddison in behind Oliveira in one of our final games. All very similar players but all clearly talented so I'd love to see if they could link up and bounce of each other and really cause problems for the opposition. That said maybe they are all too similar, maybe a pacey outlet that Jacob or Wildschut gives us is quite important.

On Martin, as back-up he'd be fine. Clearly a big dressing room influence and one of a few players that you know however limited he is would give his all for the team. Whether he stays or not we're going to need a whole new starting back line, with the exception of Pinto (and hopefully Dijks, though I highly doubt he'll stay). I also really like Dorrans, don't know why he's been put in the same category as the Naismiths and Laffertys of this world. 

Someone who was at the away supporters party said that Dijks was saying that he'd love to stay here.

But on loan players always say that.

 

[Canaryboy]

A lot is made of that and if you go on Pinkun there are one or two people who will tell you at length about what an incredible pro Russ is and about all the respect he has etc etc

I would ask where exactly all that has got us the last couple of seasons...

I think its about building a squad full of the right sort of characters, and weeding out the wrong types. Its a squad game, which is why it makes no sense to scapegoat a player who may be bang average and often 'found out' at this level, but who is only in the team because the players behind him haven't taken their chance this season. 

Martin's inclusion this season says more about the complete failure of Bassong and Bennett to nail down a place. If we are going to prioritise our outgoings we can start with the players who are out of contract this summer and haven't earned a new one. Turner and Bassong are definitely out, I think we should perhaps be bold and call it a day with Ryan Bennett too. If we start trying to turf Martin out too then we are going to risk using all of our resources on one position and neglecting the rest of the pitch, with is how we got to this situation in the defense in the first place (the reverse, spending all our dosh on attacking midfielders). 

Lafferty and Bassong are clowns for a start. Lafferty is probably a better player than Wilbraham, but one couldn't be bothered at Newcastle and the other would probably be the type to play out a game with a broken eye socket to save a point if it meant not leaving his team a man down. 

 

[Canaryboy]

Bassong, Bennett, Turner out. Bring two new centre backs and a left back in to replace them.

Whittaker out, new right back to compete with Pinto.

Four departures and four new players in defense is probably realistic. Remember that we do need some work on other areas of the pitch, is dangerous to fall into a trap of believing that if only our back 5 was better we'd be top of the league or something, we need at least one more decent striker for example - and they aren't cheap. 

 

[hogesar]

A lot is made of that and if you go on Pinkun there are one or two people who will tell you at length about what an incredible pro Russ is and about all the respect he has etc etc

I would ask where exactly all that has got us the last couple of seasons...

One of those would be me. I'd agree in terms of the lack of success in the last 2 seasons but who is to say it wouldn't be even worse without? I think the way the players celebrated Russ' goal with him speaks volumes. Even ignoring that part of it, in terms of a club ambassador visiting the Oldfield family, giving his shirt etc - only little things at the end of the day but in terms of a football club and its community it's still important.

 

[Canaryboy]

I think the defensive midfielder that we will hopefully bring in to compete with Tettey (spot free'd up by Mulumbu release?) could be just as important as any centre back we sign this summer. 

 

[morty]

I think the defensive midfielder that we will hopefully bring in to compete with Tettey (spot free'd up by Mulumbu release?) could be just as important as any centre back we sign this summer. 

Isn't the lad Godfrey a DM? I guess it depends on where he is in his development, and how close he is to challenging for the first team.

 

[GJP]

One of those would be me. I'd agree in terms of the lack of success in the last 2 seasons but who is to say it wouldn't be even worse without? I think the way the players celebrated Russ' goal with him speaks volumes. Even ignoring that part of it, in terms of a club ambassador visiting the Oldfield family, giving his shirt etc - only little things at the end of the day but in terms of a football club and its community it's still important.

Those shouldn't be reasons to keep him in the team though but I would suggest they have become part of it.

Actually if it was purely down to ability I would keep him in the squad  (not in the team) but when we have a chance for a big change, a fresh start etc I wonder if his presence hinders that.

 

[morty]

Those shouldn't be reasons to keep him in the team though but I would suggest they have become part of it.

Actually if it was purely down to ability I would keep him in the squad  (not in the team) but when we have a chance for a big change, a fresh start etc I wonder if his presence hinders that.

I should imagine that the new sporting director and manager will very much judge with fresh eyes. And we saw what is probably our best centre back pairing, in fact whole defensive unit, on Saturday.

I would be happy to see all 4 players here next season, on the proviso that there is genuine quality challenging them for their places.

 

[Din]

To be honest from the 3-4 times I've seen him play this season Louis Thompson looks like he could easily challenge Tettey. Been out for a long time though admittedly however he was awarded a new contract back in December so coaching staff and board clearly think he's talented. Been really impressed though ever time I've seen him play for us.

 

[morty]

To be honest from the 3-4 times I've seen him play this season Louis Thompson looks like he could easily challenge Tettey. Been out for a long time though admittedly however he was awarded a new contract back in December so coaching staff and board clearly think he's talented. Been really impressed though ever time I've seen him play for us.

Real shame he got injured, I didn't get to see him play, as was away each time, but yeah, heard good reports.

We really do have a lot of good young players on their way through.