Would Lambert still be a Premier League manager if he hadnt left?

[The Great Mass Debater]

Sorry to all those fed up of talking about Lambert, but he chose to move to Villa as he thought it was a good career move. I would be surprised if Lambert's next job was a Premier League one. So on reflection, was it a good move? Also (sorry to make a politics analogy) could you make the comparison between him and Nick Clegg? Chose short term gain likely resulting in long term damage.

First question, if he hadnt have left, would he still be our manager? (I think to answer this one you have to assume noone else comes in for him and its purely a question of whether we still want him)  I think he still would be.

Secondly, under his management would we still be a Premier League team. I think he's a much better manager than Hughton, so I would say yes, I think we would.

So for me he would still be our manager in the Premier League if he hadnt have left. Which overall would probably have been the better long term career decision. Obviously he didnt expect his time at Villa to go like that, but he had a lot of stability at Norwich which I think he undervalued

 

[morty]

I think the momentum that we had in our first Prem season was starting to slow. The nucleus of players that had served Lambert so well was starting to look a bit "found out" and it was clear that the squad was going to need some fairly large scale remodelling in the summer.

Like him or not, Hughton saw us through that awkward second season pretty well. I know we'll never truly know, but my opinion is that Lambert could well have struggled.

From what I understand he was offerred the biggest transfer budget in Norwich City history, and turned it down to go to Villa, where he received a much smaller budget. What this says about him I don't know, did he relish the new challenge of Villa, or bottle the one he had here at Norwich, not sure.

To be honest, how he could not have a clue about what his time at Villa was going to be like, I'm pretty sure he would have talked to Martin Oneill about the club, which makes his decision even odder. Really I think he maybe expected to get the Liverpool job.

 

[The Great Mass Debater]

I suppose its either supreme self-confidence, or arrogance. Noone would argue that in terms of reputation and fan-base Villa are a bigger club, but as you say, he was onto a hiding to nothing at Villa with the job mandate and the delerious fan expectation. 

I guess he just couldnt contemplate not being a success. Is that arrogance?

Norwich were debt-free, the psychology of the club was right in that everyone idolised him, his authority was unquestioned and he had highly motivated players that he had hand-picked with the odd exception.

With better resources at Norwich Im sure he'd have had the confidence to believe he would be able to upgrade the squad effectively.

I think he either didnt like being told what to do (an ego thing) and reacted badly to McNally's decision to refuse to let him talk to Villa, or it was an ego thing that he simply wanted to go to a bigger club, perhaps without appreciating how good he had it at Norwich or how restricted he'd be at Villa.

Though I loved what he achieved and how he achieved it, he always struck me as being quite egotistical. 

For the record I also doubt that Lambert could have bettered the players that Hughton brought in. Whilst I disliked him as a manager, I certainly acknowledge that he did a great job with the players he first brought into the club

 

[morty]

I wonder if he looks back and thinks "Yeah, I cocked that up"?

Because his Premiership credability is pretty much shot, I think he saw Villa as a stepping stone to a top four club job perhaps.

I think his arrogance perhaps got the better of him.

 

[Beauseant]

Lambert was on the point of joining West Ham in the summer that we went up, so he was looking for a "better" job even then, which is where the strained relationship with McNally started. He was very much focussed on his own career and it was only a matter of time.

 

[Canaryboy]

Didn't he even come close to joining Burnley halfway towards our promotion season? 

I'm actually really surprised that he got on so well with Randy Lerner. 

Its almost as if Lambert at Villa was the polar opposite to the Lambert at Norwich.

Lambert at Norwich: Great motivator, had the respect of his players, strong tactically, loved by fans, great in the transfer market, successful, strained relationship with top brass.

Lambert at Villa: Poor motivator, divided dressing room, some players claim he barely spoke to them, tactically poor, disliked by most fans, a gambler in the transfer market (not necessarily by choice), unsuccessful in the grand scheme of things, great relationship with top brass. 

He is still relatively young so has time to have another crack at the Premier League, but the only way he'll make it back is to take another Championship team up I think. He'll be managing in the Championship next I suspect in an attempt to get back in, like McCarthy and McLaren. 

I'd guess that he does have his regrets. I think his biggest mistake was not giving us one more year and holding out for a more attractive job. Martinez and Rodgers got the two best jobs that summer, Lambert should have withdrawn from the job market, led us to mid-table again, and waited for a better opportunity. 

 

[splutcho]

I think looking back, we were becoming more and more poor under him towards the end of his final season. I don't think much would have been different if he'd stayed.

 

[The Great Mass Debater]

I wonder if he looks back and thinks "Yeah, I cocked that up"?

Because his Premiership credability is pretty much shot, I think he saw Villa as a stepping stone to a top four club job perhaps.

I think his arrogance perhaps got the better of him.

I doubt it. I think he's probably too arrogant for that. Some people just arent reflective, and I dont think Lambert is. I think there's a certain pig-headedness which leads to success in football - you see it from Alex Ferguson, Brian Clough, Roy Keane etc. Sometimes its misplaced and in those lacking ability it just makes you a d*ck. But if you've got the ability it can make you a God. You're either a d*ck but you're good, or you're just a d*ck.

Being reflective perhaps isnt a quality that makes you succeed in sport - there are enough people on the production line for all those with ability but lacking confidence and all those lacking ability but boasting confidence to fall by the wayside, leaving only those with supreme confidence and ability (like Ronaldo) to truly succeed.

Only time will tell whether Lambert is a d*ck but good like Fergie, or just a d*ck like Keane.

 

[The Great Mass Debater]

Lambert was on the point of joining West Ham in the summer that we went up, so he was looking for a "better" job even then, which is where the strained relationship with McNally started. He was very much focussed on his own career and it was only a matter of time.

Yeah, that was always very clear and accepted by Norwich fans. I still think he took the wrong job though - many people said (even without the yellow and green glasses on) that Lambert would have made a better career move by staying longer and holding out for a better job. If he had 3 effective seasons at Norwich in the Premier League under his belt he'd probably be established as a competent Premier League manager and survive any subsequent dodgy period. He could well be the next John Gregory for instance now.

Overall I think his decision to leave was the wrong one for his career.

 

[Beauseant]

I think its also worth considering the "Premier League Effect". By the end of that first season we'd become much less gung ho and were getting picked off to some extent. I suspect that the next season would have seen Lambert become more pragmatic as he did at Villa or we would have gone down. I don't think its a coincidence that he and Hughton were getting the same sort of stick from their respective fans, because, sadly, that's the sort of approach a club of our size needs to stay in the Prem long enough to build.

 

[Boyerboy]

I agree with most of this.

We were getting found out at the end of that season and it would have been a rebuilding job very similar to that undertaken by Hughton. I do not believe that Lambert would have had the patience to dismantle his team and rebuild. He had come to the end.

After the disgusting and disrespectful behaviour of the Villa fans he had plenty of opportunity.to commit. In his speech after the Celtic match he again had the chance to reassure us all and said nothing. He was always moving on and knew it.

I've always considered that he sold himself too cheaply going to a basket case like Villa. It was always likely that there would be a merry go round that summer. By holding back Rodgers got Liverpool, Martinez got Everton. Lambert could have competed both and Spurs.

His stock will never be higher than it was that summer and he lost his gamble