This Russell Martin at CB thing.......

[Dubai Mark]

It seems that one of the biggest concerns, if not the biggest concern of City fans both on this board and elsewhere is Russell Martin playing at centre back.......it often gets mentioned even on threads not connected to it.

Sure, I have missed a couple of matches completely, so I havnt really got the biggest picture I should have. But,from what I have seen, I really do not have a major problem with him at CB.....he plays for his country in that position too, and Strachan knows what he is doing.

I actually prefer him at right back myself, but really do not see him playing in the centre as a huge problem.

The signing of additional CB's and not playing them is clearly part of the concern, but we also have other squad players who cover other positions not getting a game, that happens with a big squad.

I think Russel Martin is a good all round defender who wears the City shirt and Captain's armband with pride and I get a feeling that he is being made a bit of a scapegoat here, when its the overall performance of the team defending as a unit that is the problem.

 

[Canaryboy]

I have more of an issue with Whittaker at right back, and moving Martin to right back and playing one of our three new centre backs solves that problem. We are also playing two right footed centre backs. So whilst we could argue all day about whether Martin is a centre back or not, we all know that Michael Turner is not playing in his natural position (right side). Adams signed two left footed centre backs to replace Bassong. Could be argued that we have two players in that defence playing out of position.

 

[Canaryboy]

On the topic of the Scottish national team. we may get to see Martin and Whittaker face England later this month. Also the possibility of Chris Martin playing. That will be surreal won't it? Imagine if he scored!

 

[Salopian]

Whittaker is a weak point, defensively, - he's quite good going forward. The only experienced player we have for the RB slot is Martin. I think it's as simple as that. If Elliot Bennett were not out on loan, I might suggest him, but otherwise the cupboard is bare.

Perhaps Martin does make a passable effort at CB, but the Boro game suggests that he is not the complete player there.

I am a great supporter of NA, and many of his signings were good, but I fear that in some places he went for quantity rather than quality. Hooiveld is too slow to play alongside the slow Turner, Cuellar seems past it, and will Iggy ever make it? Throughout the summer I was asking for reinforcement at fullback. Martin,Whittaker and Garrido are troubled by pace and direct running, and for the moment Olsson seems a lesser player than he was, - is it his shoulder injury?

But we have what we have, although I hope we sign a top class RB in January. NA seemed to appreciate our defensive frailty, when he started with Tettey and Johnson as cover for them, and thus leaving the midfield short on creativity.

 

[ZLF]

Russ has had some decent games but some poor ones too, ditto Whits and olsson. However, for me, the underlying feeling is that as a back four they don't work.

The line is rarely solid, distances between players too large, no understanding between partners (Russ Whits, Russ turner in particular) and basic poor positioning and decision making.

Its hard to know why, but if its not working you have to fix it. Even turners performances have suffered and its madness to keep trying the same thing expecting a different outcome

None of the back fours place is secure.

We have cuellar as a rb option.

For me if we see the same defence today it will undermine Adams credibility

 

[GJP]

Our defence isn't really bad - it's just not as good as it could be.

Having said that, there are times when I think Turner is the only one who can actually defend. And I do think his workload has increased playing next to Martin compared to when it was him and Bassong.

 

[Killiecanary]

Russ has had some decent games but some poor ones too, ditto Whits and olsson. However, for me, the underlying feeling is that as a back four they don't work.

The line is rarely solid, distances between players too large, no understanding between partners (Russ Whits, Russ turner in particular) and basic poor positioning

Absolutely spot on. Individually good players (I would extend it beyond the back 4 incidentally and include the previously immaculate John Ruddy in goal) are not performing as a defensive unit together.

I actually wonder if the first bit of your post answers the second? Is the reason the manager hasn't changed it around yet because he is trying to give them time to gel as a unit?

But I agree - it needs to change today. I would go with

Ruddy

Martin, Turner, Hoiveld, Garrido

 

[ZLF]

cuellar in from the cold

 

[Din]

Happy to see him moved back out to right back today, and will be interesting to see how Cuellar does. However between Cuellar and Turner there's pretty much no pace there, which when you consider Forest have the likes of Assombalonga, Antonio, and Ince in their attack, it is a little worrying.

 

[GJP]

Thank God we got Whittaker out of the team. We're so much stronger without him.

 

[hogesar]

Well, whittaker has been defensively baffling lately, so I imagine had he played wed have looked even worse at the back

 

[GJP]

No more defensively weak than others. Just the scapegoat.

People got their wish to get him out and surprise, surprise we still came up short.

 

[hogesar]

Disagree. On his game hes on par with Martin. But whitts has looked off the mark, and RM done a better job. He even crossed much better in attacking positions - Grabban should have scored from one. Whittaker has struggled to beat the first man with most of his crossing attempts in the last few games

 

[GJP]

My guess is that if Whittaker had played today and put in exactly the same performance as Martin did people would still be calling for him to be dropped, still finding fault with him.

 

[Din]

I thought that Cuellar was possibly our best player today, so hopefully he'll continue that and we won't need to see Russell at centre half ever again.

You can't honestly think that Whittaker has been just as bad as the rest of the defence in recent games GJP? I've always liked Whittaker but there is no doubting that he has been appalling last few games, and even though we lost we looked much more solid on the whole today with Cuellar in the middle and Martin on the right.

 

[Monty13]

I have thought olsson has also looked poor, although he doesnt get as much flak as he seems to be riding a wave of positive feeling from last years good performances. He looks a different player this year, not sure what has happened.

 

[GJP]

I thought that Cuellar was possibly our best player today, so hopefully he'll continue that and we won't need to see Russell at centre half ever again.

You can't honestly think that Whittaker has been just as bad as the rest of the defence in recent games GJP? I've always liked Whittaker but there is no doubting that he has been appalling last few games, and even though we lost we looked much more solid on the whole today with Cuellar in the middle and Martin on the right.

Yeah, I think all the defenders have made mistakes. Costly ones at that. So I think Whittaker has been a bit unfairly picked out.

Thing is, play Martin at RB and we'll lose games. Play Whittaker at RB and we'll lose games. Not necessarily specifically because of them but it's just the way it is.

I just think Whittaker deserved to have a chance playing in a settled back 4 with two proper CBs. He was the right back of choice for the 10 game run - and we've never been as solid since.

But Martin is undroppable. That is clear.

 

[Din]

Yeah, I think all the defenders have made mistakes. Costly ones at that. So I think Whittaker has been a bit unfairly picked out.

Thing is, play Martin at RB and we'll lose games. Play Whittaker at RB and we'll lose games. Not necessarily specifically because of them but it's just the way it is.

I just think Whittaker deserved to have a chance playing in a settled back 4 with two proper CBs. He was the right back of choice for the 10 game run - and we've never been as solid since.

But Martin is undroppable. That is clear.

Yes all players have made mistakes. Turner has been one of our best players this season, yet it was his mistake that gifted Leeds and equaliser a few weeks ago. Olsson on the whole has had a good season, but it was his mistake the Bolton ended up scoring from last week. I agree with you completely that all the defenders have made errors (some of which have been costly).

However, the reason they haven't been dropped is because on the whole their performances have been good, yet Whittaker the reason Whittaker was dropped is because his overall performance wasn't good enough. His distribution recently has been very poor, he doesn't ever seem to win a header, and he often gets caught far too high up the pitch, meaning it's all to easy for the opposition to break down our right hand side. 

I don't think to be honest that as a full back having 2 'proper' centre backs or not next you is a real issue. The reasons why he's been dropped as I say above is poor distribution, not winning headers, and getting caught too high up the pitch. None of which are things that make a difference whether you have a proper centre back next to you not.

The 10 match run thing doesn't really make any difference IMO. It was 2 years ago now, and also included players like Bassong and Garrido, who last season were both poor.

Today Russell Martin at right back on the whole was good, better than Whittaker had been in the last few game in my opinion. Kept both Ince and Paterson quiet throughout the game, and deserves to be in the team ahead of Whittaker.

 

[Killiecanary]

I have thought olsson has also looked poor, although he doesnt get as much flak as he seems to be riding a wave of positive feeling from last years good performances. He looks a different player this year, not sure what has happened.

Absolutely right.

It is the entire defence - nobody in there has looked solid in recent weeks, including Olsson and even Turner. I would also include ruddy in that. It looks to me like communication and confidence is the key and both are sadly lacking at the moment

 

[eatonparkboy]

I agree with many of the points but would like to venture the idea that the best form of defence is attack.

I get the feeling that most just want the club promoted this season. Never mind it you fluke it, never mind if sometimes the football was dire, just get back to the Prem.

If that theory is correct then not only the manager but individual players must be reproached. And I have to say that after we rode out Forest's early momentum, we turned it around on its head and from what I understand, the home fans got tetchy with our dominance. And that dominance created several openings. Grabban had the games easiest chances and he spurned them. And he wasn't the only one. Not only are we not taking half chances which is the mark of a form team, we are failing to take the sitters.

Yes NA was totally inept in his reading of the game in the second half and his failure to react to Forest's changes, but to be fair we ought to have been 3 ahead at the break.

So while it is easy to see the shortcomings in defence, there are occasions when that pressure on them would not exist if the front men did their job.