In or Out?

[Lake District Canary]

Adams replaced Hughton, surely it's relevant to discuss and compare the new incumbent with his predecessor? If people believe McCarthy would eke more from the squad it isn't unreasonable to think that Hughton would.

I think its a fair subject.   It just didn't work with Hughton at Norwich for many reasons, but he remains a  manager with credentials - damaged credentials after his second season with us, but nevertheless he has a good record as manager overall.    His worth relies on the players he has under him.  Newcastle were a cohesive group and pulled together under him.   I suspect the same happened at Birmingham.   At Norwich the group were cohesive, but I believe he was given carte blanche to change it, upgrade it and build something new.   That is not his strength as we found out to our cost.    Give him a strong squad, tell him to work with that and he would probably do ok. 

 

[morty]

Wigan have just sacked Uwe Rosler. A man who could do no wrong last season, and a name mentioned by a fair few people as someone they would like here.

Funny old game

 

[Canaryboy]

Would Hughton be getting more out of them is a more relevant question?

I was thinking about Hughton the other day. If we'd appointed somebody else to replace Lambert, and was relegated under this other manager, then Hughton would probably be exactly the type of manager that you have wanted to appoint this season to steady the ship (considering his record with both Newcastle and Birmingham). 

There was no way that the board could keep hold of the man who relegated us (OK, so he didn't technically relegate us, but he practically did). Hughton had just lost the fans and the dressing room, and in my opinion didn't deserve the chance to make amends after a disastrous season and some terrible transfer business. Imagine the fury that fans would have if we'd stuck by Hughton and found ourselves in mid-table under his stewardship, we'd be having sack the board protests. 

However, I am very surprised that he hasn't landed himself a job in the Championship. His spell at Norwich must have really damaged him because his stock was high when we stole him from Brum. 

 

[Yellow Fever]

I was thinking about Hughton the other day. If we'd appointed somebody else to replace Lambert, and was relegated under this other manager, then Hughton would probably be exactly the type of manager that you have wanted to appoint this season to steady the ship (considering his record with both Newcastle and Birmingham). 

There was no way that the board could keep hold of the man who relegated us (OK, so he didn't technically relegate us, but he practically did). Hughton had just lost the fans and the dressing room, and in my opinion didn't deserve the chance to make amends after a disastrous season and some terrible transfer business. Imagine the fury that fans would have if we'd stuck by Hughton and found ourselves in mid-table under his stewardship, we'd be having sack the board protests. 

However, I am very surprised that he hasn't landed himself a job in the Championship. His spell at Norwich must have really damaged him because his stock was high when we stole him from Brum. 

Rather an overstatement CanaryBoy. Most of us thought the 'transfer business' was brilliant at the time. I'm not defending Hughton, but it's not fair to exaggerate the situation, especially when you go on to say " I am very surprised that he hasn't landed himself a job in the Championship." Strange.

 

[Canaryboy]

Everybody keeps saying that I'm strange! Twice in one day? 

I don't see what's strange about that at all. He failed here, but has had enough success in this league prior to joining us to justify another crack at this league with another club. Most managers get the sack at some stage in their career, Mick McCarthy and Steve McLaren included. 

David Moyes did very well at Preston and Everton. Few would disagree that his stint at Man Utd was a disaster, although many would acknowledge that he was left in a bad situation and it wasn't entirely his fault. Pretty sure that Real Sociedad have appointed him on the strength of his prior achievements though, no? 

I'd have thought that any Championship CEO's would recognise that he did a good job at both Birmingham and Newcastle in this division, and disregard his difficult season in the league above. Just as Real Sociedad have recognised that Moyes has proven to be a competent manager, and disregarded his humiliation last season? 

As for Hughton's summer transfer business. Yes we got very excited about Van Wolfswinkel, Fer and Redmond. Shame that we never saw the best of them. If anything is strange I think it is your defence of a manager who brought in three strikers at a combined cost of almost £20m and couldn't get them to reach double figures between them. If that isn't a disaster, then what was it? The consequences have certainly been disastrous. 

 

[Dubai Mark]

Moyes was left with a squad that, despite their success the previous season, clearly needed major change. Now they are doing no better having recruited that arrogant Dutch git and spend a fortune on offensive players and very little on defenders....I genuinely believe that given time Moyes would have made a better fist of it.

Anyway, back to this topic........I am now shocked at how the "In's" have gone up...surely there cannot be 15 Norwich City supporters who genuinely want to back NA right now?  

But seriously, it has been asked about what we should expect from the next 4 games.....for me, even considering that Wigan will probably get the "new manager bounce" my expectation is a minimum 10 points......and also achieved with a couple of very decent performance thrown in too. The first game is probably about result only, but over the next few games I think we all want to be persuaded that NA can do this and what we are seeing IS going to end up getting us back "challenging"..........

Also, seeing Wigan take action has again indicated to me that our Board in this instance are simply not being brave enough....but, I love being proved wrong and await the change of fortunes and charge up the table in to the first two automatic places over the next six or so matches.....  that's where we SHOULD be NOW and I for one want it correcting!!!

 

[Monty13]

Moyes was left with a squad that, despite their success the previous season, clearly needed major change. Now they are doing no better having recruited that arrogant Dutch git and spend a fortune on offensive players and very little on defenders....I genuinely believe that given time Moyes would have made a better fist of it.

Anyway, back to this topic........I am now shocked at how the "In's" have gone up...surely there cannot be 15 Norwich City supporters who genuinely want to back NA right now?  

But seriously, it has been asked about what we should expect from the next 4 games.....for me, even considering that Wigan will probably get the "new manager bounce" my expectation is a minimum 10 points......and also achieved with a couple of very decent performance thrown in too. The first game is probably about result only, but over the next few games I think we all want to be persuaded that NA can do this and what we are seeing IS going to end up getting us back "challenging"..........

Also, seeing Wigan take action has again indicated to me that our Board in this instance are simply not being brave enough....but, I love being proved wrong and await the change of fortunes and charge up the table in to the first two automatic places over the next six or so matches.....  that's where we SHOULD be NOW and I for one want it correcting!!!

Our board is not being brave enough? Wigan just entered the relegation zone, hardly comparable with our position. If every time a club had a bad run of form the manager was sacked the managerial merry go round would be even more ridiculous.

I also find your take on the Moyes situation amusing considering your complete advocacy for dismissing Adams.

I'm not debating improvements need to be made, but there are only two ways clubs become successful in the medium to long term, by constantly chucking money at the situation or by back room stability. Which do you think we can afford?

The fact that the first team coach had been removed is an indication all is not well and the board is making improvements to a process that's only been running a few months and has had some success and some failure.

It doesn't mean in the long term Adams is the right man, but for me at this stage of the season I don't see who is going to come in and guarantee a better result this season over Adams. That's why at this stage, considering where we actually are, I don't want to see another change in pursuit of short term goals when that change is not guaranteed to improve us.

 

[eatonparkboy]

I don't think anyone, apart from the eternal haters, wants to see the manager replaced as it is as you say a ridiculous merry go round. But the question asked is in or out and it was prompted by the Forest game and what appeared to be a very poor managerial performance. Yes the players made mistakes but, generally, the majority of the members replying, thought the manager had displayed a fault, weakness, inability or whatever you want to call it, that brought into question, his ability to get the club promoted back to the Prem and, importantly in many of their eyes, this season.

The relevance of any other manager at any other club doesn't matter. If the current manager is replaced, and I don't think he will be, then there might e some comparison. And in reality, if it should happen, unless the club brought in someone successful from the lower leagues such as Robinson or Cooper, they would only be looking at someone who has fallen of that ridiculous merry go round.

 

[Wiz]

With the Brighton game coming up, I'd shudder to see the poll should we unfortunately lose that game.

 

[Dubai Mark]

Monty13, I take on board your views on this and its a fair take, and actually the scenario you are describing I think the majority of us want in our hearts....BUT, having followed the club now for not far off 50 years, I personally genuinely see the signs of this ending in tears big time and that's why I am unfortunately in the "yes" camp because thats what my head says.  I am reluctantly now beginning to change my mind on the management stability question and feel that the stability is of course needed at certain levels of the club, like Academy BUT...when it comes to the leadership of the first team, then you have to move quickly as to dilly and dally very often doesnt work out and we are in very high risk territory right now.

As for the Moyes situation, I see it as something very different.....Manure gave him time, but then didnt like the consequences when the inevitable happened. Their board new he was inheriting a squad that had given its last breath for success and that major changes were required to stand any chance of doing it again and that would take time, they under estimated the scale of the job and how well Ferguson had done to achieve what he did. Very different scenario than the Neil Adams one....but it's OT anyway, so lets move on.....

 

[the bristolnest]

Mark said

 BUT...when it comes to the leadership of the first team, then you have to move quickly as to dilly and dally very often doesnt work out and we are in very high risk territory right now.

Mark, when CH had us in the relegation end of the table you were arguing for patience and yet when NA has us near the top of the championship you want to hit the eject button after four months of the season.  I understand that NA was not first choice for many of us but confirmation bias appears to be getting the better of a lot of posters at the moment.

 

[Boyerboy]

I do not understand the constant references here and especially on Twitter that the Board or McNally or Delia etc lack the courage to sack Adams. It was similarly claimed that they were not brave enough to sack Hughton.

If there's one thing we've learnt since the beginning of last season is that sacking managers is easy. By the standards being urged on our Board, Cellini at Leeds, Tan at Cardiff, the Glazers and if course the Board at Fulham all have bravery of Victoria Cross levels. In many cases they were cowardly trying to dump their difficulties with a quick fix rather than sort them out.

We laugh at these clowns for their sack every five minutes policies and yet City is berated for not emulating them.

What is brave is standing up for what you believe in when the baying masses attack. Sacking Adams is the easy option. Standing by him and helping him turn this round in the middle of this social media storm is the brave option. Whether it's wise is a different discussion. The Board may have been wrong not to sack Hughton earlier but in the spring of 2014, not sacking him was the braver option

 

[Yellow Fever]

Well said BoyerBoy! Fulham and Cardiff have both sacked their managers and what good has it done them? It's too easy to blame the manager when the players make crucial mistakes. 

 

[Andy]

Does the appointment of Mike Phelan change your view on Adams?

It does for me, I think we need to give them both a chance to put things right. Let's see where we are after Xmas and in the meantime get behind the manager.

 

[Canaryboy]

Well said BoyerBoy! Fulham and Cardiff have both sacked their managers and what good has it done them? It's too easy to blame the manager when the players make crucial mistakes. 

Well for Fulham it has brought 4 wins, 3 draws and 1 defeat in 8 games since Kit Symons took over, one of those wins against us. They have risen from 23rd to 17th in the league in that period, and are currently 4th in the Championship form table.

So quite a bit of good as it happens? 

 

[morty]

Does the appointment of Mike Phelan change your view on Adams?

It does for me, I think we need to give them both a chance to put things right. Let's see where we are after Xmas and in the meantime get behind the manager.

I think it is the ideal compromise, and really the ideal outcome. Had they appointed a lesser coach this wouldn't have appeased anyone.

 

[Lowestoft Canary]

Still an out for me.

 

[Lowestoft Canary]

Even more out surely he can't last another week?

 

[Surgeryman]

Walking out from the game, my mate started saying that even having HUghton still in charge would be better than Adams. Got me thinking I must admit. Defensively we would have been better it must be said.

 

[Surgeryman]

I think it is the ideal compromise, and really the ideal outcome. Had they appointed a lesser coach this wouldn't have appeased anyone.

Disagree, we need a manager not another coach. Now Pulis and Phelan would be interesting!