Will Van Wolfswinkel Be A Success With St Etienne?

[Paul Handscombe]

Yeah... that's rubbish.

why, so you think that teams in the bottom half of the dutch and portugese leagues would do well in the prem, that's deluded if that was the case then their leagues would have more champions league and europa league places.

Teams like Maritimo and Gronigen would be top half champ at best.

 

[mrleelee123]

Hogesar, Ill be honest, I love the chap ( in a manly way) love how he talks about city, loves his commitment. But still think he could do the job here.

Just remember how many players took time to settle in the first and second seasons.

Remember Iwan Roberts and everyone saying he was our worst signing ever after his first season?

Here's his opinion on the matter - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/28673425

 

[Paul Handscombe]

don't forget Everton as well.

Jesus, he was *bleep* last season, just look at the video of the Fulham game on the other thread that sums it up.

He would not cut it in a more physical and demanding league like the Champ

 

[bloodwagon]

Conveniently not mentioning goals he's scored against Ath Bilboa, Man City, Benfica and Lazio.

No surprise there then, funny how people only talk about the lower league goals he scored and forget the goals he scored against upper classed teams !!

 

[splutcho]

Nope, you're probably right that some teams would be Championship, but certainly no lower than that. So if you've got a league full of mainly teams of about Championship quality plus about 5 or so that are Premier League quality (some of those top half PL) I would love to know how that makes them worse than the Championship and not better?

 

[splutcho]

don't forget Everton as well.

Jesus, he was *bleep* last season, just look at the video of the Fulham game on the other thread that sums it up.

He would not cut it in a more physical and demanding league like the Champ

The Championship isn't a more demanding league.

 

[Paul Handscombe]

No surprise there then, funny how people only talk about the lower league goals he scored and forget the goals he scored against upper classed teams !!

Yeah I forgot the goals against Chelsea Man Utd Arsenal Liverpool Spurs and the other 18 clubs he didn't score against last season

 

[Canaryboy]

Remember Iwan Roberts and everyone saying he was our worst signing ever after his first season?

Here's his opinion on the matter - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/28673425

Iwan Roberts flopped in his first season because he weighed over 15 stone, and at the end of that season was given an ultimatum to get in shape if he wanted to play for the club. He lost two stone in pre-season, and then had an excellent season. Sounds like another former striker of ours who slimmed down under Lambert, only to gain weight again and become immobile. 

Ricky probably needs to gain muscle weight and become stronger to succeed at the top level, but only he can do it - and perhaps that may be his motivation for choosing a physical league for his loan. 

 

[Paul Handscombe]

The Championship isn't a more demanding league.

 Of course it is, everyone says that, more games worse pitches, harder tackles, that comment is just rubbish as to quote you

 

[splutcho]

 Of course it is, everyone says that, more games worse pitches, harder tackles, that comment is just rubbish as to quote you

That doesn't make it more demanding. You forget to add, more space and far worse defending.

 

[bloodwagon]

Yeah I forgot the goals against Chelsea Man Utd Arsenal Liverpool Spurs and the other 18 clubs he didn't score against last season

OK I get it, you dont like him and never wanted him here, I get that.

Shame really, as I said, we should have kept him. COULD have done the job here

 

[mrleelee123]

No surprise there then, funny how people only talk about the lower league goals he scored and forget the goals he scored against upper classed teams !!

Seems goals against "lesser" teams in the league don't count and should be ignored. So with that theory, Hooper scorer 1 maybe 2 goals last season against Swansea and Liverpool, as the goals he scored against West Ham, Fulham, West Brom and Palace surely shouldn't count!

 

[hogesar]

I would say that your argument re the other leagues is quite irrelevant because I don't think RVW necessarily lacks the finishing or technical ability to do well in those league. In fact he's proved abroad that he does have it.

The problem here is the physicality of the defenders, more than anything. You don't get many Admiral's in the foreign leagues.

We never saw RVW's full technical ability which is why I said i'm not sure if he does have all that - he was too easily  brushed off the ball by average but strong Premier League defenders. I doubt it'd be hugely different in the Championship.

What I will say is, he would have stood a better chance if we played balls to him last season which would enable him to play off the shoulder of the last defender. Rather than facing away from goal, where he was dealt with comfortably by every team last season.

 

[Paul Handscombe]

I did like him and wanted him to do well, he didn't but like I said on the other post he left in a classy way and all respect for him for that

 

[bloodwagon]

I would say that your argument re the other leagues is quite irrelevant because I don't think RVW necessarily lacks the finishing or technical ability to do well in those league. In fact he's proved abroad that he does have it.

The problem here is the physicality of the defenders, more than anything. You don't get many Admiral's in the foreign leagues.

We never saw RVW's full technical ability which is why I said i'm not sure if he does have all that - he was too easily  brushed off the ball by average but strong Premier League defenders. I doubt it'd be hugely different in the Championship.

What I will say is, he would have stood a better chance if we played balls to him last season which would enable him to play off the shoulder of the last defender. Rather than facing away from goal, where he was dealt with comfortably by every team last season.

I must agree with most of this

 

[splutcho]

You make it sound like no striker has ever made it in English football without being a tank. I remember a certain diminutive Canadian knocking in plenty for us last time we were here. 

Strength is not everything and had we played to his game rather than sticking him on his own with no support and trying to get him to play like Holt, he would have done fine. 

 

[mrleelee123]

What I will say is, he would have stood a better chance if we played balls to him last season which would enable him to play off the shoulder of the last defender. Rather than facing away from goal, where he was dealt with comfortably by every team last season.

So very much this, the Saint Etienne manager seems to have him sussed by describing him as a "box player". Unfortunately when he was here he probably got the ball in the opponent's box about 8 times in total, then the times he was stood there waiting for a cut back, he didn't get it.

 

[Canaryboy]

You make it sound like no striker has ever made it in English football without being a tank. I remember a certain diminutive Canadian knocking in plenty for us last time we were here. 

Strength is not everything and had we played to his game rather than sticking him on his own with no support and trying to get him to play like Holt, he would have done fine. 

Yes but Jackson had pace. When Thierry Henry signed for Arsenal he was quite bulky and Juventus had been trying to build up his strength, Arsene Wenger slimmed he right down like a greyhound and we saw what happened next. 

RVW doesn't seem to have much pace, particularly on the ball, and when he is on the ball seems to get knocked off it. I'm not saying that we should turn him into John Hartson, but Van Persie doesn't get bullied does he? 

Although in fairness to RVW we didn't play to his strengths at all last season. We didn't seem to provide decent service to any of our strikers during Hughton's tenure. Van Persie would have struggled in our team. 

 

[BarclayBoy88]

I don't think you become a bad player overnight, Ricky was a good player in Holland and Portugal and scored some cracking goals, however things just didn't go his way here. I don't care what anyone says, the tactics that were implemented played a key role in him not getting scoring opportunities, we created 9 goal scoring chances for him last year, 9 and that's it, He got injured early and missed important time before Christmas. His confidence took a hit and he wasn't pulling the trigger like he usually would. Yes he needs to put a little muscle on for sure, but that doesn't happen overnight either. You need a little patience, just because he flopped in year one, doesn't mean he'll flop in year two.

If you watched him in Holland or in Portugal, you'll see the guy runs on confidence. He had zero confidence at the end of last season, he was looking to pass when he got into the box, you watch him for Sporting and there is no way he's passing that ball in the box. It's confidence, and sending him away to France is a good way to get that confidence back. We put a ton of pressure on him and then got on his back when it didn't start well. 

Who knows what happens from here, but I think it's off the mark to say he isn't technically a good player. We didn't see it at the end but at the start of the season, his movement was superb. I always wonder what would have happened had Snodgrass let him take the penalty against Aston Villa. He should have been taking that penalty and another goal would have given him a nice confidence boost. 

 

[splutcho]

I'm not even sure he was bullied off the ball all that much tbh. I remember him winning the ball back from defenders and giving as good as he got.