SafeStanding at Carrow Road

[Suffolk Canary]

Legalise Safe Standing. pic.twitter.com/T4jp8fLKkQ

— Barclay End Projekt (@BE_Projekt)

March 21, 2015

Saw this and i thought i'd see what we thought about the prospect of safe standing at carrow road on here. 

For me, it's a no brainer. It would improve the atmosphere, increase the capacity of the lower barclay (assuming that's where we'd put it) and the tickets for that part would be cheaper. I personally can't see any negatives.

Thoughts?

 

[morty]

Completely behind this campaign, and hopefully it is gathering pace. Yeah a block or two in the lower Barclay would be brilliant. 

 

[Din]

I'm also behind this. Pretty much the whole of the lower tier of the Barclay stand anyway, so I don't see any problem.

 

[Canaryboy]

I'd love to see us introduce safe standing, perhaps start with blocks E & D of the lower Barclay, with a view to then extending to the rest of the lower barclay if it goes well. 

There are people who would like to stand at the football, they are a minority but I can't see why we shouldn't meet their needs. Most of the majority, the people who value a seat, would value the improved atmosphere which is generated. 

 

[Suffolk Canary]

Good to see we're in agreement.  It seems the only people who oppose it are those who haven't done any research on what rail seats actually are.  Completely different system to the terraces of the past

 

[morty]

Good to see we're in agreement.  It seems the only people who oppose it are those who haven't done any research on what rail seats actually are.  Completely different system to the terraces of the past

Too many people when think of standing at football matches also, completely wrongly, link it with the Hillsborough tragedy. 

Which is just nonsense, as there were many, many factors there, standing being the least important, people stood at football matches for decades without a similar tragedy.

Video about rail seats.

 

[Beauseant]

Safe standing is a campaign that's gathering pace, and rail seats are a superb invention. The Trust held an open meeting on this last year which provoked a lively debate with good points being made on both sides. I think that the safety argument has largely been won, but less sure about the economic one, in that clubs will want to see a return on the cost of installing rail seats. Given the game's constant pursuit of income that's a potential sticking point, but there's clearly a growing demand and it has to come eventually.

 

[KeiranShikari]

Why would the board approve of this when they could simply get a bunch of clap banners printed up?

 

[Canaryboy]

 but less sure about the economic one, in that clubs will want to see a return on the cost of installing rail seats. 

It would make economic sense for us, if the only other option is rebuilding the City stand at a cost of £30m. Could in fact say that this is the only realistic option that we have if we were to decide that we wanted to increase stadium capacity, and I have a feeling that there is a certain type of fan who would attend more games if given the option of a casual ticket in the Barclay Lower, rather than being stuck behind a post in the Wensum corner. 

It is extremely difficult to purchase a ticket in the Barclay as a casual, especially if you need two seats together (or even close together). 

Agree that most other clubs below the Premier League - who see half empty stadiums - would struggle to justify the expense though. Shame because it could rejuvenate football in this country I think and the improved atmosphere would win back some fans, surely grants for this would be a sensible way for the FA to spend their share of the huge TV deals! 

 

[Suffolk Canary]

Although i still think we need safe standing introduced, I've noticed the barclay aren't being forced to sit down anymore (well, thats what it looks like from the River End anyway). Hopefully this is at least a sign that the club acknowledge what the fans want. 

I really hope the government will look at this seriously after the general election (whoever is in power), and hopefully it could be introduced at least on a trial basis by next season.  I'm not getting my hopes up though. 

 

[Personal Trainer]

There was not a single request from Lower Barclay stewards for us to sit down on Saturday so even part of Block C stood throughout.

There is however a problem, despite being in the 65+ category, I prefer to stand however my partner finds it hard standing with no support behind her back but luckily can see round those standing because of where are seats are above the exit. There is no doubt that if Rail Seats were fitted I could safely stand and she could lean against the rail behind her.

 

[morty]

There was not a single request from Lower Barclay stewards for us to sit down on Saturday so even part of Block C stood throughout.

There is however a problem, despite being in the 65+ category, I prefer to stand however my partner finds it hard standing with no support behind her back but luckily can see round those standing because of where are seats are above the exit. There is no doubt that if Rail Seats were fitted I could safely stand and she could lean against the rail behind her.

And this point is important. If safe standing areas were to be introduced, there would have to be a certain amount of consultation with season ticket holders, and relocation, if neccessary.

 

[Beauseant]

Very important point Morty. Many of us like to stand but we have to recognise that others don't or can't. EVERYONE'S interests have to be taken into account in this.

 

[CanaryNath]

Completely back this campaign, would love to be able to stand at Carrow Road again!!

Have the Barclay End Projekt put together a costing for installing the rail seats in the lower Barclay?

If it added around 2,000 to the capacity of the stand, with a drop of £5 per ticket, you'd be looking at around £50K extra revenue per home match. (not including the extra beer and pies bought!)

19 home games (let's assume we're premier league!)  x 50K = a whisker off of £1m.

Would they cost this much to install?

 

[Personal Trainer]

Completely back this campaign, would love to be able to stand at Carrow Road again!!

Have the Barclay End Projekt put together a costing for installing the rail seats in the lower Barclay?

If it added around 2,000 to the capacity of the stand, with a drop of £5 per ticket, you'd be looking at around £50K extra revenue per home match. (not including the extra beer and pies bought!)

19 home games (let's assume we're premier league!)  x 50K = a whisker off of £1m.

Would they cost this much to install?

The Head Steward for the Lower Barclay told me that the Club has said to them that the terracing dimensions that the seats are mounted on are not suited to Rail Seats and that there would be considerable if not enormous cost to install them.

Some details here 

http://www.fsf.org.uk/campaigns/safe-standing/what-does-safe-standing-look-like/ 

 

[Boyerboy]

I have no interest in safe standing or any other kind but if others want to then fine.

However, I really am mystified why every thread on this issue concentrates on the club and on the advantages of safe seating.   The law requires our stadium to be all seater unless we go further down the leagues.   That seems about of a pyrrhic victory to me so assuming that the advocates of safe seating are not willing to go that far, it doesn't matter whether it's a great idea or if the club wants to do it.  The law says it can't happen.

Those proposing safe seating need to leave McNally alone and campaign to change the law.  Personally, I can't see any political party going with it because any government which allowed safe standing would be torn to shreds if another event occurred.  Why would any risk adverse government want to go down that route?

As I say, even if it was legal I wouldn't do it but those who want to need to stop agreeing with each other and campaign for the law that prevents it to be amended.

 

[CanaryNath]

BoyerBoy, I don't see anyone on this thread calling for McNally to act?

On the contrary, many of the points raised above highlight the need for the government to make a change in the law, before the clubs consider the possible financial implications of installing rail seats.

 

[Suffolk Canary]

The reason people are getting on the backs of clubs is because it's extremely difficult (well, impossible) for any small fan group to directly lobby government to change the law. But if the overwhelming majority of clubs publicly called for safe standing, it would pressure the government to change the law on it. That's why some people would go to McNally about it, as we're one of the clubs in the Football League which haven't backed it yet (about 40% of FL clubs have so far). 

The welsh conservatives have called for a trial of the system, and  the lib dems have publicly called for it (http://www.libdems.org.uk/safe_standing_areas_in_football_grounds)%C2"'> so its not unrealistic to see it after the general election. 

 

[TILLY]

Correct me if I am wrong but (1) the most recent survey carried out by the FSF only quizzed a total of about 2,500 fans which is a ridiculously small number of people who attend football matches up and down the country on any given weekend.

(2)The Hillsborough support group have rejected the campaign.

(3)The meeting here in Norwich organised by the Trust and The Barclay end Projekt attracted only about 40 people including the organisers.

(4) Nobody has come up with any researched financial figures that stand up to scrutiny to make this happen.

My view is that no Government will take the risk and reverse the law which many seem to have conveniently forgotten will be required no matter how many signatures are obtained or CEO's making noises agreeing with what I believe is the minority.

 

[Moosheep]

Personally, I can't see any political party going with it because any government which allowed safe standing would be torn to shreds if another event occurred.  Why would any risk adverse government want to go down that route?

The Lib Dems have have pledged that the introduction of safe Standing will be in their 2015 election manifesto.

For me, it's a no brainer. It would improve the atmosphere, increase the capacity of the lower barclay (assuming that's where we'd put it) and the tickets for that part would be cheaper.

Would introducing Safe Standing actually increase capacity? The width required for a rail seat is surely the same as the width required for a normal seat (people's width doesn't change when they sit down), and the depth of a terrace is such that you couldn't add extra rows.

I'm all for it, if it is introduced in the right way, but if it is not cost effective I can't see the club going for it.

Finally, why 'Projekt'?

Moo