What is the height of your ambition?

[The Great Mass Debater]

So we're in the Premier League. But what's it all for? As fans are we happy simply being members of the club, or do we want to achieve more?

What do we as fans want more than anything else? What would be a glorious season? There are two ways to answer this, the now and the realistic fantasy. I think we'd all settle for survival this season, but ultimately, what is the ceiling of our ambition? The stuff DVDs are made of?

Simply surviving? Cup win? European qualification?

Imagine the club is about to have its golden era and unbridled success. What for Norwich City does that mean in your eyes?

 

[morty]

Thinking practically, and taking into account limited resources and investment, establishing ourselves as a top ten club, who isn't a relegation favourite every season, would be my ideal.

But that means we would need to find glory and excitement in other ways, which would obviously mean, as our squad strengthens, perhaps going a bit further in the cups.

Obviously if we were to get greater outside investment that would maybe shift those aspirations slightly, but I'm happy for the club to carry on in the way they are doing just now. Our owners are the envy of a lot of clubs, they are true fans, and thats rare in football.

 

[KeiranShikari]

There are a few things I'd like to see.

Get established in the Premier League playing at a decent brand of football. To actually perform in cups, Swansea and Wigan have won cups recently and so can we. See some academy lads break through.

 

[Canaryboy]

I'd love to see us win a domestic cup at Wembley, preferably the FA Cup but the League Cup would do, and then have a few fun trips watching our team in obscure European cities that I wouldn't otherwise have ever had reason to go to.

I think that's a realistic ambition (well, us winning a domestic cup, not me being able to get a ticket). 

Some smaller goals too, an outfield player winning an England cap whilst our player (Redmond this season perhaps?), and would be nice if we had some exciting wonderkid come through our academy and land a £20m move to Man City or somewhere. West Brom have managed to produce Berahino so not out of the realms of possibility. 

The last time we had that happen was probably Bellamy? £6m in 2000 was a lot of money. 

 

[Indy_Bones]

I'd like a return to the days of the 80's and early 90's where we played damn good football, brought through a number of good young players, feared no-one, regularly competed near the top of the league and actually put effort into cup matches.

As CB points out, Bellers is probably the last major player to make it big via our youth academy (Greeno is arguably up there as well), and I'd be delighted if we could get the next Eadie or Hux come through (I'd hoped one of the Murphy's might make this happen, but I'm not seeing it atm).

 

[morty]

I'd like a return to the days of the 80's and early 90's where we played damn good football, brought through a number of good young players, feared no-one, regularly competed near the top of the league and actually put effort into cup matches.

As CB points out, Bellers is probably the last major player to make it big via our youth academy (Greeno is arguably up there as well), and I'd be delighted if we could get the next Eadie or Hux come through (I'd hoped one of the Murphy's might make this happen, but I'm not seeing it atm).

Really though, football has changed so dramatically since then that a club of our size will ever trouble the top six, ever again.

 

[The Great Mass Debater]

Really though, football has changed so dramatically since then that a club of our size will ever trouble the top six, ever again.

Sadly I agree. Gone is the charm when a club like ours could give the big boys a run for their money simply due to a good current crop

 

[eatonparkboy]

To be honest I think the club is pretty much where I want it to be.

I do not want us to be the whipping boys of the Prem, which I believe is even more entrenched up its own arse then it has ever been. So in reality, being in the Prem is only about income. The excitement of winning, playing good attacking football in a lower division appeals to me more. And clubs like Palace have proved that you can hit rock bottom and still maintain a few seasons in the Prem.

Since the influx of foreign players there has been less opportunity for young British players and this has been a benefit to the lower division clubs. Long gone are the days of turning up to see Plymouth v Rochdale and getting neck ache. All in all, the football served up in the lower divisions has virtually equal amounts of goals and probably more excitement.

We cannot escape that NCFC and its supporters feel they belong in the Prem so that is why there was very little patience last season and so many unhappy because we didn't go straight up but ended up comforted by an exciting end of season.

I have always hoped we could bring through so many talented lads through our academy but it has stagnated somewhat despite recent success in the Youth Cup.

I cannot ever see NCFC being a permanent Prem team unless the Prem changes, not us. So the odd two or three seasons up there followed by a couple of exciting seasons in the Championship is quite acceptable to me.

 

[Canaryboy]

Really though, football has changed so dramatically since then that a club of our size will ever trouble the top six, ever again.

Never say never, a third world war or a real financial crisis, or just the Sky bubble bursting, could completely flip things on their head. 

It does feel at the moment though that it is easier to go from League Two to the Premier League (Swansea, Bournemouth), than the bottom half of the Premier League to the top 6. 

Villa finished 6th in 2007/08, 2008/09 and 2009/10 without spending Abramovich levels of money though, and they aren't that much bigger than us these days, so it can be done.

In hindsight that is a pretty amazing achievement, Martin O'Neill was a massively underrated manager. Two league cups with Leicester too, and a UEFA Cup final with Celtic. 

 

[eatonparkboy]

Never say never, a third world war or a real financial crisis, or just the Sky bubble bursting, could completely flip things on their head. 

It does feel at the moment though that it is easier to go from League Two to the Premier League (Swansea, Bournemouth), than the bottom half of the Premier League to the top 6. 

Villa finished 6th in 2007/08, 2008/09 and 2009/10 without spending Abramovich levels of money though, and they aren't that much bigger than us these days, so it can be done.

In hindsight that is a pretty amazing achievement, Martin O'Neill was a massively underrated manager. Two league cups with Leicester too, and a UEFA Cup final with Celtic. 

Sorry, I don't know your age CB but Villa were always a pretty big club. They have won the European Cup, the title 7 times and the FA Cup 7 times and the League Cup 5 times. And they weren't all in the 50s and 60s. The Holte End alone could stand 22,000 and invariably did. Ask anyone in their fifties and they were bigger than Man C and Chelsea even in the 90's.

They have declined in recent years admittedly but the term sleeping giant applies to them.

 

[The Great Mass Debater]

Sorry, I don't know your age CB but Villa were always a pretty big club. They have won the European Cup, the title 7 times and the FA Cup 7 times and the League Cup 5 times. And they weren't all in the 50s and 60s. The Holte End alone could stand 22,000 and invariably did. Ask anyone in their fifties and they were bigger than Man C and Chelsea even in the 90's.

They have declined in recent years admittedly but the term sleeping giant applies to them.

Much like Ipswich though, Villa's ye olde achievements have little relevance these days. Id argue Swansea are a bigger club than them at present. Also, what Leeds did 15 years ago or before has little relevence. Im not arguing with anything your stating, just the relevence of it. Villa havent been a big club for years, but with possibly the most deluded set of fans in the country bar Leeds fans, try telling them that!

 

[KeiranShikari]

Villa are still dishing out pretty huge wages though.

 

[Canaryboy]

Sorry, I don't know your age CB but Villa were always a pretty big club.

So were Nottingham Forest, Leeds United, and for a while Derby County. 

But in modern times are Villa any bigger than the likes of us and Stoke? Can argue all day about their history and their marginally bigger attendances (helped somewhat by our insufficient ground capacity), but I think the relevant thing is turnover. 

Aston Villa's reported turnover for the financial year ending 31st May 2014 was £75m. 

Norwich City's turnover for the financial year ending 30th June 2014 was £94m

Both teams in the same division. 

If they are as big as they think they are, then perhaps their many more fans ought to start spending more of their money on their club, perhaps they have more armchair fans than us? 

Their brand probably has a bit more prestige, which helps them land the occasional Benteke or Ron Vlaar perhaps, but that probably has more to do with their recent history under Martin O'Neill? 

 

[Canaryboy]

So were Nottingham Forest, Leeds United, and for a while Derby County. 

Pretty much just shared Brian Clough's CV.

 

[Canaryboy]

Sorry, Aston Villa's turnover was in fact £116.9m for that financial year. 

So £22m more than ours. So yeah, a fair bit bigger.

Although our restrictive ground capacity would account for a significant proportion of that difference, their average attendance of 34,133 last season isn't massively higher than the numbers I think we could achieve in this division if we had a capacity of 35000, doubt we'd ever get less than 30000. 

 

[The Great Mass Debater]

Its a shame Villa never got relegated. Their fans could do with a big dose of reality. Might also invigorate the club, sometimes relegation means a club have to learn a winning mindset again rather than accepting mediocrity.

Personally Im amazed Leeds have stayed in the abyss for so long. I was a season ticket holder there at the height of their bubble and when it all collapsed it looked like Leeds would suffer for a few years, be the butt of the jokes then come roaring back. I always expected them to come back once they had cut out the rot, but it seems it set in. If they'd had the right owners they could have become great again. Similarly I was always amazed Forest never came back, but the reality is despite their history they have become an empty shell of their former selves and not eaten from the top table for 20 years.

 

[Canaryboy]

Villa are still dishing out pretty huge wages though.

Their total wages + salaries bill for the year ending 31st May 2014 was £58m, whilst ours for that season was £54m, so wasn't a massive difference and actually much of their team must have been on very low wages if they had people like Shay Given on £50k a week and Darren Bent on £65k a week. 

That isn't just playing staff though, that's the whole organisation. 

If Gary Hooper is really on £32k a week then I dread to think what we've been paying Van Wolfswinkel, we know it is more than Sporting Lisbon were prepared to pay him. 

 

[KeiranShikari]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3016432/Club-club-guide-Premier-League-s-financial-health.html This says more. Of course I don't know how accurate he is.

Pretty sure McNally said that we were still had a bottom 4 or 5 player budget even after signing Wolf, Fer and the rest that summer.

 

[Canaryboy]

Personally Im amazed Leeds have stayed in the abyss for so long. 

Every time some new crook buys Leeds United though, all they are really buying is a brand, they don't own their stadium, they don't own their training pitch. You have to be both rich and stupid to 'invest' money into a business which has substantial debts but few real assets (other than football players), seeing as an investment is actually a loan and there is no decent collateral. Until they find somebody wealthy, naive and generous enough to invest a huge amount of money which the club can then use to purchase the freehold to Elland Road back they won't have chance of becoming a serious club again (Tony Fernandes would have fit the bill)

Every new owner at Leeds says that the club will purchase Elland Road back, and yet it never happens. If they don't purchase it back by 2029 it will probably be sold to property developers. Cellino claims he is a billionaire yet failed to raise the funds to buy it back for £16m last year, every year that they don't buy it back the rent goes up 3%, which is well above the rate of inflation.

 

[Canaryboy]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3016432/Club-club-guide-Premier-League-s-financial-health.html This says more. Of course I don't know how accurate he is.

Pretty sure McNally said that we were still had a bottom 4 or 5 player budget even after signing Wolf, Fer and the rest that summer.

We don't really have any idea what our current financial status is, we won't know until they file accounts for the period ending 30th June 2015, who knows how much last season cost us - we could have had to borrow to cover a huge loss, and if we did then that would explain our conservative transfer dealings this summer. 

If you think about it we'd almost have had a Premier League wage bill before we'd even signed a player, because most of our squad would have seen their pay double back to Premier League levels upon promotion, and our big money signing (Brady) was purchased from a club who probably still owed us a lot of money, much of the £7m we reportedly paid for Brady could have just been accounted for by us writing off whatever Hull still owed us for Snodgrass.