You wouldn't bet on it

N

Number 9

Well-Known Member
O'Neill's red card seemed totally out of character.

Martin's back pass was extraordinary.

Are these events the sort of anomalies which get investigated by the sports betting police?

Is it possible that the only explanation's are either gross stupidity and unprofessionalism OR unusual betting patterns?

Am I over analyzing it?
 
Canaryboy

Canaryboy

Well-Known Member
You aren't the only person to ask that question of O'Neils red card.

Russell Martin's back pass was the result of him just being out of his depth though. 
 
G

GJP

Well-Known Member
Not the first time Martin has been caught on or given away the ball in that kind of area. Complacency/over confidence?
 
Boyerboy

Boyerboy

New Member
I don't think it is either complacency or over ćonfidence. I think he was trying to keep the ball in ball rather than take the safer options of Row Z or the opposition penalty area. 

It has become a universal truth of modern football that you recycle the ball and don't give it away. Whereas Big Dunc ( bless him) would have blasted the ball and worried about the consequences when they happened, the modern footballer is obsessed with keeping it.  This is also why we see so many apparently aimless passes in midfield back and forth rather than long passes and through balls with a limited chance of success. 

Martin just got it wrong. Horribly, horribly wrong. 
 
G

GJP

Well-Known Member
Well, yeah, obviously he was trying to keep the ball.

Martin sees himself as a ball playing defender but you've got to know when to play and when not to. He was just far too casual with that one.
 
Boyerboy

Boyerboy

New Member
Again I disagree. Nothing to do with casualness or complacency in my view and everything to do with following the plan blindly when it was inappropriate to do so.  He under hit the pass but even if he got it right, it was still a reckless thing to do. But, that is what modern players are indoctrinated to go for.  

I also think Martin is a ball playing centre back. He is no Rio but he's perfectly competent. This was a horrible movement and he is struggling at the moment but he has had some good games this season. This very English idea that players have a natural position and must never adapt or change is one reason why we are so poor internationally. Only the English have the proverb "Jack of all trades and master of none". And, only the English think it's something to boast about.  

Another is the notion that players have a "wrong foot" rather than not be properly coached as children to use both feet but that is a whole different debate for another time. 
 
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Canaryboy

Canaryboy

Well-Known Member
Russell Martin would probably be a decent centre back for a Championship side. 

And perhaps that 0.2 seconds less that you get to make a decision in this league is the difference between him making mistakes like that and not making them.

Personally I just don't think he is good enough for this league, perhaps he is "competent", in the sense that being merely competent isn't enough to be one of the 500 players worthy of being registered in a 25 man squad in arguably the worlds best league. 

All defenders make game changing mistakes, but Martin is making far too many of them. I don't like to scapegoat individuals and I particularly don't like doing it when its a player who has been so committed to the cause and has done a job for us in the past, but for me he needs to be dropping down a level now just like Elliott Bennett, Anthony Pilkington, Michael Turner, and numerous others who did a good job for us for a period but who's time had just come to a natural end here.

He had a few seasons here where he genuine did a good job for us in this league, where he didn't look out of place, but that time was spent primarily at right back. He never actually proved his mettle at centre back at this level. Now that he has aged moved inside, and is seemingly not as good at right back now, he needs to find the level which befits his ability in his new position and for me that is going to play for Paul Lambert at Blackburn or something. 

As for whether he's a "ball playing" centre back, I always feel more confident with Bassong in possession personally, and we haven't really had one of those since Leon Barnett and Elliott Ward who could ping a 50 yard pass to our winger, but they were both a liability defensively at this level too. 

As a centre back I don't see how Martin is any better than Barnett or Ward and that partnership didn't last. Those are Championship players too. In fact, the former has just signed for Lambert and the latter is in League One. 
 
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Beauseant

Beauseant

Well-Known Member
I think you may be looking at the past through rose tinted specs there. If Leon Barnett played a 50 yard pass the chances of it ending up at one of players feet was equivalent to my odds to be the next Pope!
 
Scott

Scott

Active Member
I remember a very dodgy one a few years back where Paul McVeigh came on off the subs bench and headbutted one of the opponents got sent off...totally out of character, he surely had a bet on that one
 
N

Number 9

Well-Known Member
I remember a turgid January game against Qprs where Martin scored the only goal as we won 1-0.

But, time has come to move on.
 

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