morty
Moderator
Staff member
Canaryboy
Well-Known Member
This bit feels a little bit propagandist...
"You can’t spend money you haven’t got. Football clubs cannot borrow money to spend on players. Nobody will lend for that"
Because football clubs literally extend credit terms to each other, not uncommon for teams to pay a transfer fee in installments over the length of the players new contract.
And banks aren't the only means of borrowing capital. Pretty sure Aston Villa have just borrowed £50m from their owner and spent it on players. Its an internal debt, yes, but its still a loan. Finding an investor who will pay x amount for equity and loan x amount is another option. Isn't this literally the reason Glenn Roeder had to start playing Darel Russell up front, because the Turner's withdrew their offer to loan the club £2m to spend on players?
Still, I'm happy enough with the business we did. Felt pretty obvious that we attempted to sell Steven Naismith to finance one more, probably a striker, the intent was there from the club and I was expecting much worse in terms of departures.
Its actually been a decent summer window for us. Just a striker short, hopefully we can shift a bit of deadwood and do a bit more business in January.
"You can’t spend money you haven’t got. Football clubs cannot borrow money to spend on players. Nobody will lend for that"
Because football clubs literally extend credit terms to each other, not uncommon for teams to pay a transfer fee in installments over the length of the players new contract.
And banks aren't the only means of borrowing capital. Pretty sure Aston Villa have just borrowed £50m from their owner and spent it on players. Its an internal debt, yes, but its still a loan. Finding an investor who will pay x amount for equity and loan x amount is another option. Isn't this literally the reason Glenn Roeder had to start playing Darel Russell up front, because the Turner's withdrew their offer to loan the club £2m to spend on players?
Still, I'm happy enough with the business we did. Felt pretty obvious that we attempted to sell Steven Naismith to finance one more, probably a striker, the intent was there from the club and I was expecting much worse in terms of departures.
Its actually been a decent summer window for us. Just a striker short, hopefully we can shift a bit of deadwood and do a bit more business in January.
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morty
Moderator
Staff member
He's never going to "win" though, as its well known he is friends with our owners. I like the piece, there has been a lot of nonsense, of the opposite view, spouted recently.
Heres another article that is worth a read, about transfers.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/the-set-pieces-blog/2016/aug/24/transfer-window-market-myths
Heres another article that is worth a read, about transfers.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/the-set-pieces-blog/2016/aug/24/transfer-window-market-myths
Fenway Frank
Well-Known Member
Liked the bit about net spend ?
Canaryboy
Well-Known Member
Basically, yeah, in fact that was my first thought when I opened the article.
But I liked the article regardless. It comes down to whether we want a club which lives within its means and attempts to punch above its weight, or a club which borrows big money today to fix today's problems but potentially creating problems for the future.
I'd choose a well run business any day of the week. If the club said we don't have a big pot of money to spend then fair enough, I'll only question it if the owners started paying themselves big dividends.
Whether we've spent money well in past windows is another debate, its difficult to escape the fact that we have an £8m attacking midfielder that we don't really need.
Its a double edged sword though isn't it. If we didn't go and sign somebody like Naismith in January the board would be blamed for lack of ambition. But if we hadn't have spent that £8m we'd have been able to sign Pritchard this summer and still had enough money left over for a striker.
Fans needs to manage their expectations a bit. If there are a few million in the pot that we'd failed to spend then the board is damned if they do and damned if they don't, spend it on summer deadline day and fans question the lack of signings when January comes, so its lose-lose for the board. Personally I'd like to think we've left ourselves with a little bit of room to move in January, if we get a serious injury or it becomes clear that we're lacking a little something in a promotion race?
And I still think the best signings we could make now is to tie down the Murphy's on 4 or 5 year deals, they've got something special.
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morty
Moderator
Staff member
Yeah you sum it up pretty well.
As Delia and Michael get older though we have to start seriously thinking about succession plans. If the plan is basically to give all their shares to nephew Tom and let him take over, then I doubt many would be happy with that.
We are balancing things financially now, after managing to pay off debt. The real test will come if we don't get promoted this season.
As Delia and Michael get older though we have to start seriously thinking about succession plans. If the plan is basically to give all their shares to nephew Tom and let him take over, then I doubt many would be happy with that.
We are balancing things financially now, after managing to pay off debt. The real test will come if we don't get promoted this season.
S
SussexYellow
Active Member
Agree that fans need to manage expectations. We do not have súper rich benevolent owners, and whilst prudence may be underrated I think it will serve us better long term than odds against gambles that are labelled by some as ambition.
However whilst I do think the Murphy's have potential I do still question whether they are yet "special". It is all very well having attacking flair, but I feel the defensive side of their play in support of the team still needs to be developed, and their vision and peripheral awareness become more prominent. I am probably alone here but I would have preferred Josh to pick out Jerome with a simple pull back for a tap in around 90 seconds before, and instead of, his brilliant goal on Saturday. Also I felt Jacob's first touch was a weakness on Saturday albeit it did appear they Cardiff were triple teaming him, an indicator of how much they were concerned about the threat he posed. Potentially special yes, but not there yet.
However whilst I do think the Murphy's have potential I do still question whether they are yet "special". It is all very well having attacking flair, but I feel the defensive side of their play in support of the team still needs to be developed, and their vision and peripheral awareness become more prominent. I am probably alone here but I would have preferred Josh to pick out Jerome with a simple pull back for a tap in around 90 seconds before, and instead of, his brilliant goal on Saturday. Also I felt Jacob's first touch was a weakness on Saturday albeit it did appear they Cardiff were triple teaming him, an indicator of how much they were concerned about the threat he posed. Potentially special yes, but not there yet.
Canaryboy
Well-Known Member
Can equate it to the reasons why Jeremy Corbyn is considered unelectable.
He wants to take a club which is already loss making, borrow huge sums of money for ten consecutive years to invest in players, and then leave a right mess to the next owners to have to fix with decades of budget cuts when he isn't around to feel any remorse for the long term ramifications.
At least, that's why I wouldn't vote for him.
He wants to take a club which is already loss making, borrow huge sums of money for ten consecutive years to invest in players, and then leave a right mess to the next owners to have to fix with decades of budget cuts when he isn't around to feel any remorse for the long term ramifications.
At least, that's why I wouldn't vote for him.
ZLF
Well-Known Member
Not sure it told us anything that we didnt already know tbh. The bit about RvW being our record signing is a little disingenuous as I though that kloses fees was not quite a record but that naismith was a record breaker - but thats a history quibble more than anything.
The club does budget to use all spare cash on the playing squad and wages and it was clear that we had an expectation of earning more in transfer fee income than we did, we couldnt sign more without letting one go. Keeping the likes of Jerome, Klose, Brady & Olsson is a serious statement.
We do have a championship quality squad that is in the top three in the league. We have goals in us, they will just be shared across the squad rather than one sriker dependent; Jerome has 3 goals from 5 games and will perform consistently. The defence will remain a problem; its not a good unit and should we succeed in promotion we will need a new right back, at least 2 centre backs a left back & a keeper to give cover and starting options to go with Ruddy, Pinto, Olsson & Klose - everyone of the others can go.
To me its clear we are suffering from a relegation hangover in two respects; firstly a lack of confidence (that will soon vanish with a run of wins and cementing a slot in the top 6) and a secondly a little under estimation (arrogance?) of the opposition in that we will win with half committed performances. A run of wins and we will see a return to more entertaining football, greater energy passing vision and movement; the lack of confidence / fear of failure being oa thing of the past will allow that.
I remain confident that the options we have in attack, the experience across the pitch and depth of the squad will mean that we will at least make the play offs..
The club does budget to use all spare cash on the playing squad and wages and it was clear that we had an expectation of earning more in transfer fee income than we did, we couldnt sign more without letting one go. Keeping the likes of Jerome, Klose, Brady & Olsson is a serious statement.
We do have a championship quality squad that is in the top three in the league. We have goals in us, they will just be shared across the squad rather than one sriker dependent; Jerome has 3 goals from 5 games and will perform consistently. The defence will remain a problem; its not a good unit and should we succeed in promotion we will need a new right back, at least 2 centre backs a left back & a keeper to give cover and starting options to go with Ruddy, Pinto, Olsson & Klose - everyone of the others can go.
To me its clear we are suffering from a relegation hangover in two respects; firstly a lack of confidence (that will soon vanish with a run of wins and cementing a slot in the top 6) and a secondly a little under estimation (arrogance?) of the opposition in that we will win with half committed performances. A run of wins and we will see a return to more entertaining football, greater energy passing vision and movement; the lack of confidence / fear of failure being oa thing of the past will allow that.
I remain confident that the options we have in attack, the experience across the pitch and depth of the squad will mean that we will at least make the play offs..
S
SussexYellow
Active Member
I felt it more confirmed what we already surmised but did not actually know, and now give us a close to definitive view of the reality.
Criticism of Mick Dennis because he is close to the ownership is harsh. More a relationship that provides insider knowledge that can be shared to give us a better understanding of the actual situation than biased support of the owners.
Criticism of Mick Dennis because he is close to the ownership is harsh. More a relationship that provides insider knowledge that can be shared to give us a better understanding of the actual situation than biased support of the owners.
Canaryboy
Well-Known Member
Its not really, I think its sensible to view with cynicism. Having unprecedented access to the inner-workings of the club as a professional journalist is a privileged position, and that alone is enough to have a bias towards retaining the status quo. That's the point that people have, he's hardly going to come out and write an article which is highly critical of the club because he'd soon find that somebody else is flavour of the month. So I think its fair to point it out.
Still, I'm not anti-board or anti-Alex Neil anyway, so have no problem with an article which gives a few people a dose of reality.
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