Need to be careful what we wish for?

[Canaryboy]

I'm a willing participant in the chat about whether Alex Neil should remain our manager, hope he turns it around but can't see it happening. 

But there seems to be a growing number of fans directing blame / hate towards the board, and calling for a new regime at the top level. 

That's one that I won't join in with (sorry Wiz), I think we really need to appreciate how lucky we are with our owners and successive managing directors who are capable of keeping us in the black. 

Look at how many clubs there are of our size who are in deep sh*t at the moment due either to mismanagement or dodgy foreign owners (not that all dodgy owners are foreign). At the moment we've got Coventry owned by a hedge fund and playing in a stadium that they can't afford. 

Charlton fans owned by some shady billionaire who owns 5 different football clubs, all of whom seem to go on a downwards trajectory as soon as he takes over (some are saying asset stripping?).

Bolton now recovering from near-bankruptcy and a long transfer embargo, but presumably still on the brink because they never entered into a CVA.

All of those clubs in League 1, the league that Sheffield United are stuck in too.

I've been frustrated by a lack of foresight in recent years, particularly some sort of transfer policy which sees us buy players with 7 or 8 years left in the game instead of giving has-beens a retirement home for 4 years, and I'm a bit worried that this transfer policy means that we've blown it when it comes to being able to get out of this league in the short term if we blow it this year.

But it could be much worse couldn't it? Seems to be a sense of europhia for a year or so at any club which pimps itself out as a plaything to tax evaders, but more often than not it all goes wrong when it transpires that the owner is utterly clueless when it comes to the football business, or when they get bored? Tony Fernandes seems to have long abandoned his attempt to buy success and has settled for just owning a Championship side with a Championship budget? 

It wasn't all that long ago that we were close to bankruptcy in League One and the likes of Bolton and Charlton were still being muted as the standard-bearers for how to best run a mid-sized football club? 

I've not got any desire at all to see a takeover to be honest. Much rather just see what sort of manager Moxey has in mind if Alex Neil has to go. 

 

[Gaffer]

A lot of our fans are still living in 1992-94 and get frustrated even at being a mid-table Premier League club. These are the types who boo 0-0 draws at home in the prem and believe our rightful place is challenging for Europe. Anyone who doesn't share their fantasy is accused of being 'little old Norwich'. These types are never going to be happy with the board. On the other hand our board do seem prone to making poor decisions and not taking action where they should. Our transfer failures is a classic example. But nobody knows whether new owners would improve things or make thinks worse. We'd love to have owners like Stoke or Leicester but not Cardiff or Blackburn. Even an owner willing to open the chequebook hasn't done QPR much good. I'd rather have genuine fans as owners but the way the club is run needs to improve.

 

[Canaryboy]

A lot of our fans are still living in 1992-94 and get frustrated even at being a mid-table Premier League club. These are the types who boo 0-0 draws at home in the prem and believe our rightful place is challenging for Europe. Anyone who doesn't share their fantasy is accused of being 'little old Norwich'. These types are never going to be happy with the board. On the other hand our board do seem prone to making poor decisions and not taking action where they should. Our transfer failures is a classic example. But nobody knows whether new owners would improve things or make thinks worse. We'd love to have owners like Stoke or Leicester but not Cardiff or Blackburn. Even an owner willing to open the chequebook hasn't done QPR much good. I'd rather have genuine fans as owners but the way the club is run needs to improve.

That's my point though really, change for the sake of change or "at any cost" is just a ridiculous position to take. 

Obviously if a respectable businessman came forward and said he wanted to buy into the club, or even buy the club in its entirety, the fans would judge him (or her!) on their own merits and I suppose the board would then be open to justified criticism if they weren't even prepared to get around the table with that person.

But most of these billionaires seem to want to get clubs on the cheap, then its a complete toss of the coin in respect of whether they actually put their money where their mouth is. Half of them seem to get bored very quickly (Venky's, Lerner, etc). 

 

[SussexYellow]

I think this is going to be a long reply to basically fully agree with you CanaryBoy.

The right benevolent owner can make a huge difference to the fortunes of a club. But as you point out the risks are huge and the outcome if it goes wrong potentially disastrous. So until a benevolent suitor with green and yellow blood flowing through his veins who is in it for the long haul comes along, then lets stick with what we have. Even if this means accepting that we have an ownership model that is highly unlikely to deliver an established premier league club.

That said if I could have my wish granted I would have us as an established premier league club with Alex Neil at the helm. However somebody has been spiking my breakfast with reality pills. AN's reluctance to vary from his favoured tactics and playing personnel when the team has been a long way from firing on all cylinders, coupled with looking to have lost his own self belief has I feel left us on route for a parting of the ways. It will be interesting to see how he performs at this weeks presser if indeed it is published as normal on CanaryPlayer.

The problem with the current owners is that they have an indifferent track record in appointing managers. A club of Norwich's stature should be able to attract a proven manager of some quality. Since the turn of the millenium I would only put Hughton in that category. OK it ended in tears but that is the calibre of manager we should be looking for. Of the others Worthington made his name with us, and Lambert and Neil were left field appointments from lower leagues that came good. These were the successes but they were against the odds. We can not push our luck with such appointments for ever. I will not even go there with the other appointments.

So if we are to look for a new manager I really hope that our owners break the mould of recent appointments and seek a manager of a calibre befitting of our club and indeed our playing squad - we have invested in the players it is now time to invest in a manager to get the most out of them. Come on Delia and Michael, the club's fan base deserves it.

OTBC

 

[Bill and ben]

One of the problems with high calibre established managers is they seem to come with high transfer budget demands. Our current situation means these demands cannot, and shouldn't be met. I think what we need right now is a guy with a track record of making do with what he has been given. Unfortunately I cannot see beyond allerdyce in this respect.

hopefully we'll win big in the next fixture and make this an academic issue. For a week or two....

 

[Canaryboy]

The right benevolent owner can make a huge difference to the fortunes of a club. But as you point out the risks are huge and the outcome if it goes wrong potentially disastrous. So until a benevolent suitor with green and yellow blood flowing through his veins who is in it for the long haul comes along, then lets stick with what we have. Even if this means accepting that we have an ownership model that is highly unlikely to deliver an established premier league club.

We are also in a place where we are too big for a mere rich person to make a big difference, but not quite big enough or fashionable enough to be attractive to the super rich.

If we turn over circa-£100m as a bottom half team in the Premier League, a benefactor has to be stinking rich to make a substantial difference to our fortunes. I mean, even if somebody wanted to throw £100m over a 10 year period at our club that is only a 10% increase in our most recent reported turnover averaged out over the decade.

Whereas £1m a year would make a massive difference to Hartlepool at the bottom of League 2, it would probably establish them in the league above at least, or could take Lincoln City from the Conference National to League 2 and possibly then beyond.

Jack Walker walked into Blackburn and spent £25m on players, bought the Premier League title in the process, then spent £20m to rebuild Ewood Park. But that money would be chicken feed now (in real terms) with the TV deals, and his family still went and sold the club to the Venky's!  

Jack Hayward spent £70m at Wolves, built them a new stadium and wiped out their debts. Huge amount of money at the time, but he only achieved 1 year in the Premier League in 17 years of ownership, and he had to give the club away for £10 when he sold it (the new owner had to promise £30m of additional investment).

Its fantastic what our owners have achieved in recent years just by appointing the right executives. Not just McNally and Bowkett, but the chap before them who increased our average gate by almost 10,000 after years of kids for a quid etc. Can't remember his name, but he went to MK Dons and has done similar there. 

I just hope that the new look board and Moxey can continue in a similar vein and give us a few more years of success. Jack Hayward spent £70m+ on 1 year of Premier League football in 17 years at Wolves. Delia and Co have spent peanuts on 6 years of Premier League football. A few more would be nice, and I'm worried that we may now be on a downward trajectory and that being stuck with high earners on long contracts may be our undoing, but in terms of the past 5 or 6 years.... we've done well.

I do worry that we've been so short-sighted giving 4 year deals to the likes of Naismith and Jarvis though, their best years are behind them and its likely they are on wages that no other clubs will be willing to match to take them off our hands. This is why I bleat on so much about transfer policy, and our lack of 23/24/25 year old's. 

 

[Fenway Frank]

Andy Cullen is the other guy you're thinking of

 

[Canaryboy]

Unfortunately I cannot see beyond allerdyce in this respect.

And he'll be getting a Prem job before the January window, when relegation threatened teams roll the dice. 

 

[SussexYellow]

One of the problems with high calibre established managers is they seem to come with high transfer budget demands. Our current situation means these demands cannot, and shouldn't be met. I think what we need right now is a guy with a track record of making do with what he has been given. Unfortunately I cannot see beyond allerdyce in this respect.

hopefully we'll win big in the next fixture and make this an academic issue. For a week or two....

I am not sure that it is true that a big transfer budget is a necessity to get the right manager. Possibly in the premier league but less so in the championship. I would expect Hughton's budget to be less than that given to Alex Neil for instance.

But I agree totally that a large transfer budget is neither necessary nor should be given. This squad of players motivated and organised should be good enough. The key position for me that needs strengthening is goal keeper. A good shot stopper that can also command the 6 yard box would make a huge difference and promote confidence throughout the team. Maybe that is why we are linked with this keeper from Swindon.

How we play tomorrow will tell us a lot. Maybe it will calm a few nerves. I know I am knee jerking to an extent after what I saw at Brighton, but I have not been blind to the issues we have had for most of the season.

 

[Keckers]

While I am no fan of AN, I am much more moderate in my views of the board. I do respect Delia, Michael and Michael for everything they have done, and the appointments of McNally and Bowkett were inspired. However, I am not convinced by the most recent appointments. I fear Ed Balls makes us look like a joke as he is little more than a self-publicising idiot (in my view) and I have no idea why we took Moxey, who was at the helm of Wolves during huge spending years and consistent under-achievement. I hope to be proved wrong, but the appointment of AN and the continued support of him (along with talk of him being this wunderkind) makes me questions their ability. In their time in charge, they have made few good appointments. I would rather our chairman was someone with real business knowledge rather than a failed career politician and I would like our Chief Exec to be someone with a track record of success and innovation (or someone younger with a lot to prove).

My faith in the board will be tested by how long we continue to support AN. If he has a magical transformation then I am more than happy to eat my words, but I just cannot see this happening and I worry about false dawns prolonging the agony and us missing out on other good choices. We look certain to miss out on Lambert now (oh how I wish he had never left..) and there are other options out there that are better than AN with a proven track record at this level.

It all makes tomorrow a little more nervous as I don't want us to lose but I don't want a false dawn and for us to be saddled with AN for any longer than necessary.

 

[Canaryboy]

Ed Balls may be really annoying and smug, but he is no joke, difficult to imagine anybody better qualified to be honest. Scholarship to study economics at Harvard, lead writer at the Financial Times, then adviser to the Chancellor of the Exchequer for years. 

Stephen Fry was the joke appointment. 

 

[Din]

A lot of our fans are still living in 1992-94 and get frustrated even at being a mid-table Premier League club. These are the types who boo 0-0 draws at home in the prem and believe our rightful place is challenging for Europe. Anyone who doesn't share their fantasy is accused of being 'little old Norwich'. These types are never going to be happy with the board. On the other hand our board do seem prone to making poor decisions and not taking action where they should. Our transfer failures is a classic example. But nobody knows whether new owners would improve things or make thinks worse. We'd love to have owners like Stoke or Leicester but not Cardiff or Blackburn. Even an owner willing to open the chequebook hasn't done QPR much good. I'd rather have genuine fans as owners but the way the club is run needs to improve.

Spot on. Some of our fans seem unwilling to accept, or simply too ignorant to realise, that we are a yoyo club. We admittedly have had opportunities to try and push on and be a little bit more. Our 3rd season in the Prem where we gave Hughton a £30m budget was a good chance to establish ourselves in the top league, unfortunately though that was a mis-judged move. Even so as you say I'd rather have owners who are Norwich City supporters, who may be more conservative with money but you know ultimately are making decisions that they feel are the best thing for the club, rather than a foreign owner who gives us £80m to spend in the transfer market with the aim of trying to do well in the Premier League just so his bank balance looks a little better.

 

[Canary World]

It was never this bad under the Messiah 

 

[Keckers]

Impressive resume Canaryboy, but where is his real world experience in running a successful business, especially in football? And at which point does his ego stop and his business acumen (assuming it is actually there) take over? I'm not sure you can count his time advising the chancellor through years and years of overspending and a complete lack of regulation of financial institutions, as a success. I certainly don't.

To me he is a journalist turned failed politician who is riding his celebrity status rather than bringing substance. I think the fact that he was tweeting pictures of himself dancing on transfer deadline day when we desperately needed help to bring players in is a sad indictment of what he can actually offer, although his career in politics will make him excellent at spinning every story line.

Alan Bowkett was a hugely successful businessman. No surprise that his appointment coincided with the best business results seen at city for a very long time.

Ed balls is just not that guy. I hope I am wrong but objective evidence (limited as it is) seems to suggest that he will not be that guy. But I do hope that I am wrong.

 

[Canary World]

Thanks keckers I think I am living in a parallel universe from where I am about to return 

 

[Canaryboy]

Impressive resume Canaryboy, but where is his real world experience in running a successful business, especially in football? 

If he was the MD / CEO you would have a point, but the Chairman doesn't run the day to day business. Their job is to run the board. 

Its Jez Moxey who has to run the business, and its him who has the football experience. 

Ed Balls is perfectly qualified for the role that he is expected to perform, which is presumably to chair board meetings and AGM's, diplomatic duties / conflict resolution, and scrutinize financial performance / rubber stamp accounts, etc. 

I don't think its a bad appointment really. I know he's currently in the process of milking his fame for all its worth with the cringeworthy reality TV stuff and the book, but doubt that will last long, he'll soon fade back into relative obscurity and make his inevitable return as a backbench MP in a safe seat somewhere when they've ousted Corbyn. 

 

[Gaffer]

In The Times interview Delia comes across as being arrogant with a sense of entitlement. It's shocking to hear she doesn't even listen to enquiries. It's her duty to but she seems to see the club as a family business to be passed on to her son.

 

[Bill and ben]

In The Times interview Delia comes across as being arrogant with a sense of entitlement. It's shocking to hear she doesn't even listen to enquiries. It's her duty to but she seems to see the club as a family business to be passed on to her son.

I'm not sure that she is under any duty to consider offers, not anymore than I am to listen to offers for my house, car or wife.

i also don't see any issue with ed balls as chairman. For a volunteer he is remarkably well qualified.

Over the long term this board has done us very well and I can see no reason for change.  The manager however......

 

[Gaffer]

I'm not sure that she is under any duty to consider offers, not anymore than I am to listen to offers for my house, car or wife.

i also don't see any issue with ed balls as chairman. For a volunteer he is remarkably well qualified.

Over the long term this board has done us very well and I can see no reason for change.  The manager however......

She doesn't have a legal duty but she has an ethical duty to the club and fans to at least be open to offers that could improve our finances.

 

[ZLF]

Who to change?     I can not see the manager surviving the downed tools attitude of the players,  for me its a question of how soon the board accept this.  

However this is the 3rd time that a core of players have given up on a manger since hughton;   once could be a mistake.  twice,  but three times??   Colneys comfortable cabal needs disruption irrespective of the chosen managerial replacement