Worth Pondering

R

rbf

Active Member
Possession´s nine points of the law

That is, if you manage to score,

Otherwise it´s a waste

And just leaves a taste

Of wanting and expecting much more

Fiddling and faddling´s okay

But not if you give goals away,

Then the direct route

From one hefty boot

Is often the most profitable way

So far, under German High Command

Goals have been in high demand,

And in scarce supply

So maybe that´s why

He´s not waving his magic wand.

I´d say the jury´s still out on Herr Farke, and on Mr. Webber ( for trying to prove he could pull off the same trick twice).
 
morty

morty

Moderator
Staff member
I would say that people need to get to grips with the reality of where we are. Literally 3 weeks ago Herr Farke was the messiah. Now he is just a naughty boy.

I don't know how some fans get through the day with the emotional swings they have.

?
 
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Fenway Frank

Fenway Frank

Well-Known Member
My mate said to me the other day it’s no surprise that people have heart attacks at football matches 
 
OldRobert

OldRobert

Well-Known Member
My mate said to me the other day it’s no surprise that people have heart attacks at football matches 
With a lot of people moaning elsewhere about 'turgid fare' on offer at CR atm, I doubt there are many heart attacks occurring there! :D  
 
R

rbf

Active Member
I would say that people need to get to grips with the reality of where we are. Literally 3 weeks ago Herr Farke was the messiah. Now he is just a naughty boy.

I don't know how some fans get through tge day with the emotional swings they have.

?
I´m not sure if that was directed at me Morty, but if so, no emotional swings here, I thought Farke was the wrong appointment from day 1, and I still think so. Until he proves otherwise, there must also be question marks over Webber´s judgement in bringing him in, too, just to try and prove he could create a second miracle - lightning very rarely strikes twice!
 
G

GJP

Well-Known Member
It's a weird situation. They are far away and not very far away.

If they could play Tettey and Oliveira every game until the end of the season they would be right up there. But they can't.
 
morty

morty

Moderator
Staff member
No not at all RBF, the general swing in just a few weeks is one of the worst I have seen!
 
N

Number 9

Well-Known Member
I keep being reminded of the quotes from Webber couple of weeks ago, not exact words but - if we're not in top six at Christmas I wont be happy.
 
Canaryboy

Canaryboy

Well-Known Member
For me if responsibility for transfers has been taken away from Farke then I don't see how we can apportion him much of the blame. 

If we turned around and appointed any run of the mill English manager tomorrow, what exactly would be be able to change? We'll still only have 1 striker, we'll still have Pritchard and Olivieira out, we'll still be skint and we'll still be be losing our best players in the near future. Plus we'd probably then lose Trybull. 

We're on a downward trajectory and things won't truly improve until we hit rock bottom again, and we're not there yet. 

At the moment I'm starting to get angry about McNally's last year at the club and how he left us in the crap, I'm also angry at Ed Balls and want the embarrassing idiot out of this club, and whilst I appreciate the difficulty of the task that Webber faces... I didn't really like the way he went quiet when we had a difficult period earlier in the season to heap the pressure on Farke and take none of it on his own shoulders when part of the problem was the lack of talent at his disposal (including being left with James Husband as his only left back). 

If we're in mid-table in January then that's probably a good thing.... no point in delaying the inevitable, just sell whoever it is we need to sell to balance the books next season.

tts difficult to say "Farke did that, Farke did this" when we don't know who is here because of Webber and who is here because of Farke. Pretty sure Farke didn't have the slightest idea who James Husband was when we paid £1m for him, and probably cringed when he thought about left back X from the German Y league that he could have got for nothing. 

Lets for arguments say that Franke was a Farke signing, and that Franke was expensive and a big mistake (could change in time, but for arguments sake).... That one might be on Farke, but Hanley is on Webber and was a panic buy. He pretty much admitted it was a panic buy, an expensive one. 

So I question whether our decision making is even improving, Hanley is no better than Ipswich's two best centre backs (although admittedly, that is one of their stronger areas of the pitch). 

I'm still reserving my judgement on Webber, because when it all goes wrong I want to know whether he admits to any mistakes and explain what those mistakes were or whether he uses Farke as his fall guy and apportions all blame on him. 

I lost respect for McNally a little when he was having digs at Moxey on twitter. Now I'd have swapped Moxey for McNally in a heartbeat, but Moxey was handicapped by stupid decisions made in McNally's final transfer window. Which of our current deadwood or overpaid players were signed by Moxey? I'd put it at 0, with a caveat that we probably overpaid for Wildschut (who has grown on everybody).   

Webber is being handicapped more by McNally's decision making than Moxey's (stuck with Jarvis and Naismith on the payroll), and if Webber walked today then his successor has to work out what the hell to do with Franke (and I still think Vracic is our new Tony Andreu). 
 
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Canaryboy

Canaryboy

Well-Known Member
More upbeat part 2....

But there is still room for a little bit of optimism, I reckon Carlton Morris is on the cusp of being Championship quality, just get him back in January and work out how to use him, even if its for the odd 15 minutes to give Cam Jam a break (the poor guys knackered). 

Jamal Lewis returning may enable us to try Stipermann in other positions, where he may be a revelation (probably won't be, but its worth a try). 

If Tettey can stay fit we can drop Vrancic and play either Trybull or Reed a bit further up the pitch. We've got Tettey for 1 more year. 

Most serious situation is strikers though. Its not just that we don't get enough bodies in the box (although we don't), expecting a 31 year old Jerome to play 5 nineties in 11 days and the question why he's not playing very well, he's on a hiding to nothing. Just get Carlton Morris back as soon as we can, 1st January, and stick him in. 
 
Canaryboy

Canaryboy

Well-Known Member
Why did we sign Hanley? Its a bit bemusing. 

I mean, we've got a manager who likes playing out from the back... so we spent £2.5m on a replica of Malky Mackay? 

I liked Malky Mackay, but it feels like a very round peg for a very round hole. Its a bit confusing, you appoint a continental style manager and then you sign him a Nigel Worthington or Mick McCarthy type player. 

I really struggle to believe that Webber has shown Farke DVD's and Farke has said "yes, just what I need". Feel much more like "Here you go Farke, have an old school British centre half, work out how to use him" 
 
G

GJP

Well-Known Member
We signed Hanley after the early season defensive disasters. It was a clear reactionary signing which has since been dressed up as something they were always planning.

However, I'm glad we've signed him. I don't think he's that limited with the ball and certainly no more limited than Zimmermann. 
 
Fenway Frank

Fenway Frank

Well-Known Member
More upbeat part 2....

But there is still room for a little bit of optimism, I reckon Carlton Morris is on the cusp of being Championship quality, just get him back in January and work out how to use him, even if its for the odd 15 minutes to give Cam Jam a break (the poor guys knackered). 

Jamal Lewis returning may enable us to try Stipermann in other positions, where he may be a revelation (probably won't be, but its worth a try). 

If Tettey can stay fit we can drop Vrancic and play either Trybull or Reed a bit further up the pitch. We've got Tettey for 1 more year. 

Most serious situation is strikers though. Its not just that we don't get enough bodies in the box (although we don't), expecting a 31 year old Jerome to play 5 nineties in 11 days and the question why he's not playing very well, he's on a hiding to nothing. Just get Carlton Morris back as soon as we can, 1st January, and stick him in. 
That’s an upbeat post ? ?? I’m not sure Morris will be good enough and think League 1 is his level. I’d have that lad we got from Orient on the bench against Barnsley 
 
G

GJP

Well-Known Member
If Morris wasn't our player would we want to sign him?

4 goals this season. Don't think that even puts him in the top 20 in League 1.
 
Canaryboy

Canaryboy

Well-Known Member
I'm not talking about him becoming our number 1 striker, I'm talking about him giving a Jerome a rest / playing the last 10 or 15. 

Perfectly sufficient for that. 

Besides, 4 goals is 3 more than Jerome this season.... and its a far better record out on loan than Loza had, he was given minutes a few times and banged on in if I remember correctly? Morris is a big target man who plays with his back to goal, so he could potentially hold the ball up and bring others into play. 

What's the alternative? Considering Webber is probably willing to spend about £500k on a transfer fee and £5k a week wages max.... we're in serious trouble in 7 months, no establish striker is coming here. Will be minutes for Morris or minutes for Abraham. 

Perhaps if we can miraculously shift Naismith in January we could sign a senior player in that position, but from where I'm sitting it looks like we've got two £2.5m centre backs sitting on the bench, and that one of those is the £2.5m striker that we desperately need.... so I'm not pleased we've got Hanley, but gutted that we had to write off Franke pretty much instantly when his fee and wages could have been better spent. 

Hanley will be a handy player when this all goes tits up and we end up with an English manager taking us back to basics.

I've got no idea who we could sign up front, can't see us signing a proven Championship striker on the £15k+ a week that they all earn though, and I can't think of any potential bargains (missed a trick with Waghorn, paid less than £1m for him and a great age). 

This January will be about cost cutting not signing proven strikers, so its a kid on loan (Jerome Sinclair?) or one of our own (Carlton Morris?). We're not going to be going out and spending £4m+ on a Chris Martin or a Gary Hooper, we're second rate now and competing with the likes of Barnsley and Ipswich... sad but true, just being realistic. 
 
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Canaryboy

Canaryboy

Well-Known Member
Matt Derbyshire from Omonia in the Cypriot league is my only idea for a potential bargain. 

We could have had Omar Bogle in the summer after he moved from Wigan to Cardiff, scored twice against us last year... what more evidence did we need that he's decent?

We could have signed a striker in the summer, we didn't.... but we did sign one more centre back than we needed. Now we're approaching the crazy January window and will have a Barnsley budget because we'll be 6 months away from being in a financial crisis. 
 
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G

GJP

Well-Known Member
I'm not talking about him becoming our number 1 striker, I'm talking about him giving a Jerome a rest / playing the last 10 or 15. 

Perfectly sufficient for that. 

Morris is a big target man who plays with his back to goal, so he could potentially hold the ball up and bring others into play. 
Perfectly sufficient for not scoring a goal when we need one?

Who would he bring in to play? We've got a problem with not getting people forward in support.

There where moments against Wolves when Watkins had the right idea but nobody got close to him.
 
dj161

dj161

Well-Known Member
thats been my problem with us for most of the season, we have plenty of the ball, get in good positions but there is never more than one in the box, the wingers and midfielders do a good job of keeping the ball and getting it forward, but don't do anywhere near enough work in getting themselves into the box, how anyone playing up front on there own is supposed to score goals when he has 4  or 5 defenders to go up against with no support is beyond me
 
G

GJP

Well-Known Member
Yup. It is Hughton-like. 

It relies heavily on beating defenders in one on one situations and then being deadly when the chance comes.

Have we got the players for it?

It took until the 80th minute against Wolves for someone to knock the ball past Bennett and chase it. Resulting in Bennett giving away a foul. Surely they must know Bennett is fine with anything infront of him but as soon as it's got him on the turn he's in trouble.
 
Din

Din

Well-Known Member
I have to say it almost makes me laugh how childish some of our supporters are :D  the speed in which some fan's opinions have changed is just astonishing. 

The fact is we went on a 9 match unbeaten run, where our form in the league was as good, if not better than any other side in the division. On top of that we won 5 consecutive away games, an achievement no Norwich side has managed in God knows how many years, and won the East-Anglian derby convincingly. That shows what our squad is capable of doing. We have a team that can challenge for promotion, there is no doubt about that. 

Whilst it's practically impossible to claim that the sole reason we're not looking like promotion candidates is simply because we've been unlucky, it has to be said we really haven't had the rub of the green. Pritchard getting ruled out for 6 months before a ball had even been kicked was obviously a big blow, but even without arguably our best player we managed to put that superb run together. However, whilst on that run we had Tettey get injured and out of action for 2 months, our number 9 not at full fitness for weeks, and half the time not even able to make an appearance because of a lingering problem. We then had to travel to one of the best team's in the country for a cup game, with only one day's break after the Ipswich game, in which we outplayed them, had major refereeing decisions go against us, and were taken to extra-time before being unjustly beaten. We were then unfortunate to come up against two very good sides, Derby and Wolves, who took advantage of how fatigued we were. I didn't watch or even really listen to the Bolton game, but from what I've read it sounds like we were simply trying to limp to the international break.

I just find it odd how three losses and suddenly everyone forgets about our fantastic efforts in the previous 10 games, and resorts back to "the players aren't good enough", "Farke's out of his depth" etc. Admittedly we were poor in all 3 games but some fans almost don't seem to look at the context surrounding the games at all. 

We have a good squad of players here, and more importantly we have a squad of players and coaching staff that clearly really care about the team succeeding, which with the exception of half a season under Alex Neil, is something I don't think we've seen at this level since the Lambert days. At the moment though it's almost like one game changes everything. If we lose then we're clearly not good enough and will be mid-table, if we win then we're dark horses and good enough for promotion. That's not the way football works, particularly in the Championship which is arguably the craziest league of them all. We're now 13th, 3 games before this we were 6th, and 8 games before that we were in the bottom 3! I know that we're not too far off the half-way point in the season, but there is still a hell of a lot that will happen to the league table between now and May, and I think that it's a bit ridiculous that some fans are getting so depressed when we lose and so high when we win. You just can't do that as a football fan, and in all honesty I don't think it's that hard to look at the bigger picture. It is almost like at times that certain 'fans' are wanting us to do poorly just so they can have a moan, rather than actually getting behind the team.

Same goes with the players. Jerome has a good game and it's all about how he works so hard and is a great option to have, next week he doesn't have as good a game and it's not good enough that he works hard and he should've been sold ages ago. The same rough argument goes for so many players; Murphy, Vrancic, Watkins, Husband even Naismith and Klose. I just think it's really childish that grown men's opinions on these players can change so quickly. Don't get me wrong, as much as I do like Jerome I am getting tired of the fact that he does miss so many chances. I straight up think Naismith is sh*t, Murphy blows hot and cold but is definitely a good player to have, Vrancic has shown glimpses of a talented player but needs to do more than that to warrant a place in the side, Watkins, in all honest, I haven't seen had a good game for us yet, though as mentioned above he was doing the right things against Wolves but just wasn't getting the service, and Husband I wasn't sold on at first but has gradually got more solid. I'm not saying it's wrong to ever criticise these players, or even think that certain players are simply nowhere near good enough. Just don't change your opinion on them as frequently as the weather is all I would ask of some supporters.

It's important to remember Farke is still very much learning on the job. I think the vast majority of decisions he's made so far have been good ones, and certain things he's handled very well (the Oliveira situation at the start of the season most notably). He has made mistakes definitely but his approach so far gives me cause for optimism. If he continues to learn about the league and this team, and the players also continue to gel with each other, as well as the likes of Pritchard and Lewis returning, and hopefully Nelson and Tettey much more imminently, then I will have faith that this side can finish in a play-off spot.

The games following this international break are a real chance to show that we are capable of that top 6 finish. I wouldn't say it's the easiest run, however, at home in particular we have the opportunity to pick up a lot of points. If we take 7-9 points from the home games against Barnsley and Preston, and the trip to Nottingham Forest, then suddenly the majority of fans are content again. 

Just a side-note as well to say that none of that was aimed at anybody on here, even those who aren't exactly optimistic at the moment. It was aimed at some of the mongs who moan on Canary Call, Twitter, and the other place. 
 
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