January transfer rumours!

[Canaryboy]

 Is he iconic, like a Huckerby, a Crook, a Roberts, no, he really isn't.

I am just amazed at people, a lot of who shared my indifference for a long while, have suddenly elevated him to some kind of deity.

100% this. 

This is how I perceive the whole talking to the fans thing.... that he is trying to position himself this way.

And that weird thing where Farke came in and called Russell Martin a "club legend", who the f*ck told him that? 

Grant Holt = club legend.

Wes Hoolahan = Just about makes the cut, well attended wessimonial will probably seal it. 

Those two are the playing legends of the past 10 years, Lambert takes the non-playing spot. Culverhouse managed to return to elevate himself from a "good player" legacy to probably becoming a bit of a legend! 

The bar was set very high by various players in the 80's and 90's, and you now have to be a true talisman to achieve that status here. Its annoying enough that we've got Daryl Sutch in our Hall of Fame. 

I'd put Ruddy above Martin in the 'club legend' running, but unfortunately don't think he qualifies either because too many will remember his patchy form towards the end and he didn't have the longevity of a Bryan Gunn. 

Fans universally agree that Howson was a classy player, but he doesn't get 'legend' status either, he gets 'fond memories'. 

Legacy Summary:

Russell Martin.... decent right back who was one of a number of players who played in 3 divisions in three seasons under the great Paul Lambert. Didn't quite cut it at centre back for us after losing his pace and stuck around a bit too long. May be a decent coach one day, perhaps can come back here in a coaching capacity at some stage in the future but should probably earn his stripes elsewhere first. 

 

[Fenway Frank]

I prefer it this way round

Wes = club legend

Holt = just about makes the cut

 

[Canaryboy]

I prefer it this way round

Wes = club legend

Holt = just about makes the cut

I'd accept that compromise, as long as Farke doesn't throw the word "legend" around again when talking about players like Russell Martin. 

He's allowed to use it for Wes and Wes only out of our current bunch. 

 

[morty]

I prefer it this way round

Wes = club legend

Holt = just about makes the cut

Harsh on Holty!

 

[Fenway Frank]

Funnily enough I view Holt in the same way you look at Russ Martin ? Holt obviously had more impact bit I don’t think he ever had any real affinity to us or the club. Whether that has changed with his move back to Norfolk I don’t know. Holt was good for us but we were very good for him too and don’t forget he was reported to have been very keen on going to West Ham.

 

[Canaryboy]

And Wes was very keen to go to Aston Villa.

I saw an interview with a football agent the other day.

Paraphrased...

Question: "Is there any loyalty in football?"

Answer: "None whatsoever, none at all". 

Huckerby probably an exception to the rule, but probably wise not to use it as a benchmark when determing who is and who isn't a legend...  but perhaps attribute a extra point to those rare players who do show genuine loyalty to the fans, like Huckerby who took annual pay cuts to stay here. 

 

[morty]

Funnily enough I view Holt in the same way you look at Russ Martin ? Holt obviously had more impact bit I don’t think he ever had any real affinity to us or the club. Whether that has changed with his move back to Norfolk I don’t know. Holt was good for us but we were very good for him too and don’t forget he was reported to have been very keen on going to West Ham.

The difference is the impact, he was absolutely instrumental in our romp through league one and the Championship, and was then the highest scoring Englishman in the Premiership that season behind Rooney, but still never made the world cup (he should have done). I think with Russ Martin you could have literally put virtually any other RB/CB in his place and the outcome would have been similar.

 

[Canaryboy]

Remember that Grant Holt was playing in League Two at the age of 26.... made his money very late in his career. Can't blame him for wanting to hunt for a lump sum from a signing on fee. 

He's had young kids also! 

Your family always come first. He's going to be retired for a decade by the time his kids start asking him to pay for driving lessons, fund their gap year, help them out with food at uni, lend them a deposit for a house etc... 

... If I was a footballer with 3 kids I'd be highly motivated by money also. 

 

[Canaryboy]

eh? But Russ hasnt changed at all as a person in the last 3 years yet neither you or anyone else has mentioned it until hes leaving. 

His stock has progressively gone down with me, lots of people said in the summer that he is perhaps in danger of outstaying his welcome. Not his fault that his deal was extended beyond this season, but lots of people considered that a strange decision considering the obvious purge of 30+ year old players that was already on the way. 

But it didn't actually sit well with me when it transpired that we sacked Hughton after Martin "took concerns to the board". 

And now that I've just written that out again, I suddenly wonder whether he undermined McNally by doing that and that this is one of the reasons why McNally gave up and walked a few weeks later actually! 

McNally stuck with Hughton publicly, then Martin took concerns to the rest of the board and he was sacked? 

Alarm bells should have been ringing a lot louder back then perhaps. 

I know that I'm now going well over the line into "speculation" and hypothetics, but imagine if Russell Martin attempted to bypass Stuart Webber and take his concerns about Farke to the board. 

That's commonly referred to as getting above one's station. I could imagine Webber inserting a Union Jack umbrella up his backside if he tried that one. 

 

[hogesar]

Interesting how some re-write history.

Obviously Wes and Holt go down in the history books and rightly so. Martin was a fan favourite and rightly so. It was only a few years ago we were singing Norfolk Cafu at him. He was a very good Right Back for us and scored some vital goals. He was also the better of a bad bunch of CB's at one point. Him and Bassong as a CB pairing under AN got us promoted to the prem again.

We can make things up about how he apparently, all of a sudden (because this wasn't brought up by anyone 3 years ago, certainly not on this forum) only done community stuff and volunteered and done charity work "to improve his position" or we can just take the facts as they are.

If the board are listening to Russel Martin about sacking managers over their chief exec then our board are not fit for purpose. Martin is club captain. If he is doing what he thinks is best for the team thats fine by me. And again, the contract isn't his fault either. I mean, Morty is now saying it was a triggered contract because he can't believe Webber could extend it, but Webber spent his first few interviews stating how important it was for continuity and building etc to keep Russel Martin. That he would act as a key figure in linking the Sporting Director / Head Coach with the squad. Maybe that hasn't worked out? I don't know.

Either way, for 99% of fans he will go down as an absolutely brilliant purchase, a club stalwart and for a period of time an excellent full back.

 

[hogesar]

And just for reference, fair play to GJP, because he actually did make a reference to Martin being an ar*e licker or whatever, well, 'yes man', in this case. But here's the thread from his new contract:



The majority were happy with it.

 

[morty]

Interesting how some re-write history.

Obviously Wes and Holt go down in the history books and rightly so. Martin was a fan favourite and rightly so. It was only a few years ago we were singing Norfolk Cafu at him. He was a very good Right Back for us and scored some vital goals. He was also the better of a bad bunch of CB's at one point. Him and Bassong as a CB pairing under AN got us promoted to the prem again.

We can make things up about how he apparently, all of a sudden (because this wasn't brought up by anyone 3 years ago, certainly not on this forum) only done community stuff and volunteered and done charity work "to improve his position" or we can just take the facts as they are.

If the board are listening to Russel Martin about sacking managers over their chief exec then our board are not fit for purpose. Martin is club captain. If he is doing what he thinks is best for the team thats fine by me. And again, the contract isn't his fault either. I mean, Morty is now saying it was a triggered contract because he can't believe Webber could extend it, but Webber spent his first few interviews stating how important it was for continuity and building etc to keep Russel Martin. That he would act as a key figure in linking the Sporting Director / Head Coach with the squad. Maybe that hasn't worked out? I don't know.

Either way, for 99% of fans he will go down as an absolutely brilliant purchase, a club stalwart and for a period of time an excellent full back.

You don't think there is anything odd about him supposedly being a key figure and important to the future of the club, to 7 or 8 months later being told he will never play for us again? Nothing at all?

So, in joining in with the speculation by all of us you are saying Webber and Farke are to blame for signing him again, and the board isn't fit for purpose?

Do you have an accurate source for that 99%?   And I'd like the names of people who deemed him a "fans favourite". You are part of the massive over egging of his importance with statements like that. Nobody here is hating on Russ, like I say, decent player, alright Captain, club legend? No. That is what I have always thought of him, and that hasn't changed. My issue is with people suddenly raising him to deity status.

I may just pop over to the Pinkun and read the Russel Martin appreciation thread. Oh.....

 

[GJP]

Remember when McNally came in and got rid of club "legend" Bryan Gunn as soon as he reasonably/justifiably could?

 

[hogesar]

You don't think there is anything odd about him supposedly being a key figure and important to the future of the club, to 7 or 8 months later being told he will never play for us again? Nothing at all?

So, in joining in with the speculation by all of us you are saying Webber and Farke are to blame for signing him again, and the board isn't fit for purpose?

Do you have an accurate source for that 99%?   And I'd like the names of people who deemed him a "fans favourite". You are part of the massive over egging of his importance with statements like that. Nobody here is hating on Russ, like I say, decent player, alright Captain, club legend? No.

I may just pop over to the Pinkun and read the Russel Martin appreciation thread. Oh.....

Well, even when Farke and Webber were talking about the contract extension Farke mentioned about him not necessarily playing but being key to the transition period all the same. Our defence has been OK since Martin was left out so it's hardly surprising he's not back in contention. He's been dealing with a long term illness too which maybe has had a detrimental impact on fitness and therefore getting back into a team where the CB's are fit and performing better was always going to be too difficult.

Well of course Webber & Farke are to blame for the contract extension, who else do you think extended it? His mum? I don't blame them for it personally, I don't think it was a bad move (just as you didn't when it was announced, but now it's somehow undeserved).

You also used Maddison stating the Martin abuse was not on in the thread about RM abuse. When I use it here you've said "Well what do you expect Maddison to say?". GJP used that with you then and you didn't think it was acceptable, so why is it now?

He was important in our promotion seasons under Lambert. That is a fact. And at his best he as a bit more than decent for us. He certainly isn't far off club legend status when you look at some of those that are classed as such.

 

[Canaryboy]

We can make things up about how he apparently, all of a sudden (because this wasn't brought up by anyone 3 years ago, certainly not on this forum) only done community stuff and volunteered and done charity work "to improve his position" or we can just take the facts as they are.

I'm not saying that he does community work in order to raise his profile and to try and get a job at the club after he retires.

But I will say that players at most club are contractually obliged to do x number of hours of community work! 

Russell Martin has created this situation by telling fans at a game that he will never play for Farke again. That was unprofessional, and it may have been an innocent comment and it may be purely for footballing reasons... but that's the source of the speculation among fans, and therefore he is to blame for that.  

If there has been a fall out and we have to choose to back Farke or Martin the sorry but I'd back the manager. He has shown good judgement by identifying centre back as a position which needed a complete overhaul and succeeded in improving that position. 

It may be that there is more to come out in the wash. 

But I doubt we'll hear anything formal from the inside because unlike the Howson departure, there won't be any sort of backlash to try and subdue. 

And if Martin has refused to play for Farke rather than vice versa, then the club wouldn't want that made public unless it turns off other clubs from signing him. 

Like you said.... he was a good right back for a few years, and played his bit an excellent team which we all adored. But his time is over, and I'm not sure I'd agree that we owe him anything... his job is to play football to the best of his ability, he gets paid well to do that, now his best isn't good enough... doesn't mean we owe him anything beyond what he is promised contractually, like a job for life or anything. Huckerby doesn't even get that. 

 

[morty]

He must be managing his Crohn's disease just fine if he is looking for a loan move, so not sure why you even mention that. 

No I don't think Russ deserves abuse at all, but I also don't think the legend status that some are bestowing on him either, the answer, as always is somewhere in the sensible middle.

 

[Canaryboy]

He certainly isn't far off club legend status when you look at some of those that are classed as such.

Examples? 

Don't use the Hall of Fame.... 99% of Norwich fans will be embarrassed with some of the names in that list. E.g. Andy Marshall. 

Examples of club legends that you'd get mentioned if you asked 10 Norwich fans in a pub? 

 

[Canaryboy]

No I don't think Russ deserves abuse at all, but I also don't think the legend status that some are bestowing on him either, the answer, as always is somewhere in the sensible middle.

I don't expect any backlash at all if he leaves, most Norwich fans know his time is up. 

Blokes just not good enough for the Championship now, doesn't mean he wasn't a good right back a few years back. 

Good luck at Rangers if you go there, hope you enjoy your last couple of seasons. Done. 

 

[morty]

Russ seen arriving at Glasgow airport to have a medical at Rangers, looks like, thanks to Graham Murty, the deal is on.

 

[Canaryboy]

Russ seen arriving at Glasgow airport to have a medical at Rangers, looks like, thanks to Graham Murty, the deal is on.

Actually pleased for him to be honest. 

Any player would love to play in an Old Firm game, and he may win a few more Scotland caps.