OldRobert
Well-Known Member
No commentI'll just leave this thread here in case anyone needs it.
morty
Moderator
Staff member
They won't sack him. But if it goes badly wrong against Leeds at home, next Saturday, then things could get very uncomfortable indeed...
N
Number 9
Well-Known Member
Will be an interesting Sunday
morty
Moderator
Staff member
Oh yeah. Well spotted. You win ten forum points.
Thomas the Tank Engine
Active Member
He would’ve been sacked at probably any other club in the football league by now.
N
Number 9
Well-Known Member
Will be 25000 home fans there, will need a decent performance or it could get pretty ugly.
Din
Well-Known Member
Thankfully I was at work so missed the Chelsea game, but things are looking very bleak for Farke.
There really is just no excuses for this. Our squad is undoubtedly stronger than 2 years ago, yet we're not only worse than we were then but we're on track to be literally the worst team in Premier League history. I understand that Farke wanted to make us more solid defensively than last time, but it just doesn't sit right with me that he's completely disposed of the 4-2-3-1 system that worked so well and got us promoted. You can't tell me that we wouldn't have at least 1 win under our belts right now if we'd just stuck to our guns. Kieran Dowell was in brilliant form in the back end of last season, why has he just been cast to the side? Obviously we don't know what's going on with Cantwell, but we've just completely abandoned having a number 10, when it's been a trademark of our team ever since Farke first joined. Why did we spend nearly £20m on 2 highly-rated wingers when we're playing a 5 at the back formation that doesn't use wingers? Why do we every game just look completely flat and void of any sort of actual gameplan?
I honestly love Farke, and I don't think it should be underestimated what he's achieved here. I think he's a class act off the pitch and in interviews. I'll be genuinely gutted if we have to sack him, but I just don't really see anyway we stay up with him in charge. I kind of think we just need someone to come in with fresh, new ideas who can revive this squad and actually inspire some confidence in them.
I'd still give him the Leeds game, to give him and the players a chance to respond. If we drop points in that one though, particularly if we lose it while looking completely flat and uninterested like we have most of this season, then I'm sorry to say he has to go.
There really is just no excuses for this. Our squad is undoubtedly stronger than 2 years ago, yet we're not only worse than we were then but we're on track to be literally the worst team in Premier League history. I understand that Farke wanted to make us more solid defensively than last time, but it just doesn't sit right with me that he's completely disposed of the 4-2-3-1 system that worked so well and got us promoted. You can't tell me that we wouldn't have at least 1 win under our belts right now if we'd just stuck to our guns. Kieran Dowell was in brilliant form in the back end of last season, why has he just been cast to the side? Obviously we don't know what's going on with Cantwell, but we've just completely abandoned having a number 10, when it's been a trademark of our team ever since Farke first joined. Why did we spend nearly £20m on 2 highly-rated wingers when we're playing a 5 at the back formation that doesn't use wingers? Why do we every game just look completely flat and void of any sort of actual gameplan?
I honestly love Farke, and I don't think it should be underestimated what he's achieved here. I think he's a class act off the pitch and in interviews. I'll be genuinely gutted if we have to sack him, but I just don't really see anyway we stay up with him in charge. I kind of think we just need someone to come in with fresh, new ideas who can revive this squad and actually inspire some confidence in them.
I'd still give him the Leeds game, to give him and the players a chance to respond. If we drop points in that one though, particularly if we lose it while looking completely flat and uninterested like we have most of this season, then I'm sorry to say he has to go.
morty
Moderator
Staff member
Let me just counter a few of those points, but firstly I have said I'd evaluate our position after 10 games. Lets look at two scenarios, ignoring other possible results, if we beat Leeds then we are 3 points from safety, if we lose to them then we find ourselves 9 points away from safety. Two very differing scenarios, so for that reason, yes, the Leeds game is an important one, as once you start to drift to 8-10 points then you are struggling to make that up.
We have played 9 games. There are 29 more to play. Of the 9 games, 5 of the teams we have played have won the Premier league. I think people are, possibly rightly, having a bit of a knee jerk reaction to yesterday's loss, and maybe need to gain a bit of perspective.
I can only imagine that the likes of Tzolis aren't ready enough yet, to enable Farke to utilise them, and perhaps when they are ready, then he can look at different formations, but really, do many teams play 4 at the back in this league? Let us also remember that a lot of the players we have bought have never played at this level before either.
For me the real issue is that we can't afford a Premier league standard squad, and we need a hefty slice of luck to come even close to competing, and my view is that a change of manager will make very little difference to the situation. We could very easily change managers, and still go down anyway. But suddenly, next Sunday has become one of those pivotal games, in the fans eyes anyway. This has become a very polarised debate, with people on the extremes of "in or out". But I think looking at it with a bit of context, after everyone has calmed down after yesterday, is vital.
We have played 9 games. There are 29 more to play. Of the 9 games, 5 of the teams we have played have won the Premier league. I think people are, possibly rightly, having a bit of a knee jerk reaction to yesterday's loss, and maybe need to gain a bit of perspective.
I can only imagine that the likes of Tzolis aren't ready enough yet, to enable Farke to utilise them, and perhaps when they are ready, then he can look at different formations, but really, do many teams play 4 at the back in this league? Let us also remember that a lot of the players we have bought have never played at this level before either.
For me the real issue is that we can't afford a Premier league standard squad, and we need a hefty slice of luck to come even close to competing, and my view is that a change of manager will make very little difference to the situation. We could very easily change managers, and still go down anyway. But suddenly, next Sunday has become one of those pivotal games, in the fans eyes anyway. This has become a very polarised debate, with people on the extremes of "in or out". But I think looking at it with a bit of context, after everyone has calmed down after yesterday, is vital.
N
Number 9
Well-Known Member
Valid points, it is only 9 games, however, for many fans and much of the media there seems to be a linking of how we're doing this season to how we did last time in the Premier League.
It becomes a pattern.
I personally think that many of our players are good enough to win games at this level, it's down to organisation and tactics.
morty
Moderator
Staff member
Nah.
All about the money we can spend. And seeing as most of the players we have bought have never played at this level, no disrespect, but you are absolutely guessing. Football is football, whether it is Championship or the higher physical standard of the Premier. Farke doesn't just turn up on day one after we are promoted and say "Right, how does this football thing work?"
All about the money we can spend. And seeing as most of the players we have bought have never played at this level, no disrespect, but you are absolutely guessing. Football is football, whether it is Championship or the higher physical standard of the Premier. Farke doesn't just turn up on day one after we are promoted and say "Right, how does this football thing work?"
Thomas the Tank Engine
Active Member
That's nonsense. Scores of teams have been promoted to this division with players that have never played at this level, and have not been this abject. On paper Brentford's squad is no better than ours, but they actually gave Chelsea a game, and that's when they had the likes of Werner and Lukaku available as well. Several League Two teams would've performed better than us on Saturday.
It doesn't matter how much the squad costs; the team should be set up with a definitive plan and the players should show some desire and commitment. I'm not convinced we had that on Saturday.
N
Number 9
Well-Known Member
A few clubs spent less than us in the summer, we weren't the lowest spend by quite a way.
morty
Moderator
Staff member
You do understand that the Premier league gets harder, and more expensive, every single season, yeah?
A fair few of our new players have never played in England, never mind at this level, unfortunately it is going to take time.
Brentford have gone the route we did under Lambert, keeping most of their squad together (they also spent a fair bit in their Championship season) and sure they have had a decent start, a much easier start than we have, but I note they lost their 3rd game at home in a row yesterday, come the end of the season they will be down there.
Kinda hard to show commitment when you are getting mullerred, for another example of this see Man U yesterday. Losing away to one of the best sides in the world right now, will not define our season.
morty
Moderator
Staff member
Our spending has been to expand the overall quality of the squad, with a few players very much for the future. So planning long term, not just for this season. But also most of those players are new to this level, so there will not be an immediate impact with some of them.
Fenway Frank
Well-Known Member
I’ve been to a couple of league 2 matches recently, they really wouldn’t. I do think though, that the money we spend seems to be on players for the future when we need a few right now that are good enough. Perhaps we should have spent a bit more on less players. If we’d have done that though we would have had some sort of injury crisis ( again) and we’d be complaining that we didn’t bring enough in ! Difficult isn’t it?
Thomas the Tank Engine
Active Member
You do understand that we spent more than we did two years ago, yet are worse in every aspect of our play, yeah?
N
Number 9
Well-Known Member
The United game was uncannily similar to our game.
Liverpool were pressing hard, full of energy and working hard even when they had won the game.
Every journo i heard blamed Oli's tactics, yet when we have a replica of that versus Chelsea, it's not Farke's fault?
morty
Moderator
Staff member
The comparison on quality levels really aren't the same though, are they?
Unless you are implying we should have "had a go" at Chelsea? I can 100% guarantee you that the outcome would have been the same.
morty
Moderator
Staff member
I have to say, I find all this quite amusing. Some of our fans are acting like this is literally their first season in football. Ten games ago we won the Championship, and everyone was on a massive high, now we are the worst team in the world. I would have thought most people would have got the hang of supporting Norwich City by now
Thomas the Tank Engine
Active Member
Not every Norwich City fan is a happy clapper I suppose.