The Belief That Josh Murphy Is Better Than Nathan Redmond

[Salopian]

Is there actually any justification for this other than the fact that one of them came through our academy and therefore benefits from NCFC fans willingly sticking the blinkers on? I've seen fans talk about Josh's 'vision' being better. What evidence have you seen of this exactly? I've been told he's more 'composed'....again....nope, not in my view. The most ridiculous thing is that when Redmond blazed an effort over the bar v Bournemouth, he was booed, Murphy did the same when he came on and was cheered. Utter stupidity. I'm sure someone will argue that 'Redmond always blazes it over the bar'...yes, often he does clear the bar with his efforts, but I thought in playing a far simpler game v Bournemouth (slow the play down, then use a change of pace to get away and cross it in) Nathan was far more effective. It's great to see a homegrown lad doing well in Josh, but Nathan is a phenomenal young talent also, and I think he's at least a fair bit better than Josh is right now. I like them both, but I see zero justification for the argument 'Josh is better than Nathan'- particularly as the former has barely played for us and the latter had a difficult first season in a rigid system on the wrong wing against class defenders.

Time will tell which of the two becomes the greater player, perhaps. At the moment we have two young players with obvious talent and great potential.

It should be said that some people have become a little impatient with Redders. He scored a goal early last season, and hasn't managed one since, despite many chances.He is still thrilling to watch, and he clearly has defenders in all sorts of trouble. He is vastly more experienced than Josh. Some feel, and I am one, that for some reason his development has rather juddered to a halt and we are still waiting to see the realisation of the the promise he shows.

I feel that Josh has a better shot with either foot, while Redders has better dribbling control. Josh lacks the confidence to dribble and tends to use naked pace. Currently each seems a little reluctant to use his pace, unless urged by NA..

We are lucky to have two such players, and I hope that NA and his staff will use them carefully in developing their skills. What concerns me are those occasions when one of them fails to deliver what we want, and there is a murmur of disappointment, or worse, in the crowd. The disappointment is understandable, but it doesn't help the player very much.

 

[Warren Hill]

I touched on this in my last blog, the crowd reaction to them both is very different and shows no logic, but then, who remembers Luciano Becchio being hero-worshipped onto the pitch like he was the second-coming last season? Or David Fox being compared to Andrea Pirlo? One now plies his trade at Rotherham, the other doesn't ply it at all.

Ultimately, fans are fickle and NCFC are no different in that respect and everyone loves a bandwagon. At the moment, this appears to be one that is gathering pace.

I also said that Redmond doesn't deserve to be the latest "boo-boy"; he doesn't. Wingers will always frustrate at times, it's the nature of playing in a position where you take on players - likewise I know that Wes frustrates many and it's often claimed that he surrenders possession too often but when you're trying to play THAT creative pass or that key ball then by definition you're less likely to succeed. When Redmond gets it right, he is a real weapon. The fact he doesn't get it right all the time is the reason he plays for Norwich City and not a top, top side (see Raheem Sterling).

On the other hand, it's nice to see the fans backing our home-grown players and wishing them well. Perhaps we're guilty of over-egging the Murphy pudding but we should encourage ALL our young players, Redmond included, we don't want another Ian Henderson situation on our hands...

 

[Warren Hill]

I touched on this in my last blog, the crowd reaction to them both is very different and shows no logic, but then, who remembers Luciano Becchio being hero-worshipped onto the pitch like he was the second-coming last season? Or David Fox being compared to Andrea Pirlo? One now plies his trade at Rotherham, the other doesn't ply it at all.

Ultimately, fans are fickle and NCFC are no different in that respect and everyone loves a bandwagon. At the moment, this appears to be one that is gathering pace.

I also said that Redmond doesn't deserve to be the latest "boo-boy"; he doesn't. Wingers will always frustrate at times, it's the nature of playing in a position where you take on players - likewise I know that Wes frustrates many and it's often claimed that he surrenders possession too often but when you're trying to play THAT creative pass or that key ball then by definition you're less likely to succeed. When Redmond gets it right, he is a real weapon. The fact he doesn't get it right all the time is the reason he plays for Norwich City and not a top, top side (see Raheem Sterling).

On the other hand, it's nice to see the fans backing our home-grown players and wishing them well. Perhaps we're guilty of over-egging the Murphy pudding but we should encourage ALL our young players, Redmond included, we don't want another Ian Henderson situation on our hands...

 

[Yellow Fever]

I'd say Josh is still behind Nathan in development and experience, but he's beginning to put the pressure on. 

 

[Lake District Canary]

Two different players who have a different style to each other, Murphy relies on raw pace and a good finishing technique, Redmond is quicker over a short distance and trickier with the ball and is always a threat.  Experience will help both the players fulfill their potential, but they are both imo fairly equal in the level of threat they present atm.   It would be great to see both players in the same team at some stage, then we may be able better to compare their play. 

 

[CanaryOnTheWire]

What do you base the equality of threat level on LDC, just out of interest? 

 

[Lake District Canary]

What do you base the equality of threat level on LDC, just out of interest? 

Both pose defences problems but although neither have scored at championship level yet, both have provided a quality assist each,  Redders against Bn'mth, Josh with the third goal against Blackburn. Murphy was composed in the final ball across for the third goal against B'bn,  Redders composed and accurate with his cross for Grabban.

The jury has to be out as to which one will progress quicker from here on, but it is great to have two young starlets like this who can perhaps spur each other on.  Both exciting and with potential and its going to be interesting see how they both develop.

 

[Canaryboy]

I think that comparing the ability and potential of Josh Murphy and Nathan Redmond is a worthwhile debate. In wider football fan terms Redmond is probably a bit over rated, and Josh Murphy is an almost complete unknown and therefore probably under rated. 

Amongst Norwich fans some seem to be losing a bit of faith in Redmond, probably unjustly as he is showing signs of improvement but clearly needs to regain a bit of confidence, whilst Murphy is being hyped up a bit too much for a teenager who has only really made an impact off the bench in short cameos and is a long way away from being ready for the rigors of 90 minutes every week physically and probably not mentally either. 

There probably isn't much between them in terms of potential, especially as they are almost a year apart - and Murphy will probably come on leaps and bounds in that year, but talk of replacing Redmond with Murphy is very premature. At least a year too early. 

 

[yellowarmy]

Both pose defences problems but although neither have scored at championship level yet, both have provided a quality assist each,  Redders against Bn'mth, Josh with the third goal against Blackburn. Murphy was composed in the final ball across for the third goal against B'bn,  Redders composed and accurate with his cross for Grabban.

The jury has to be out as to which one will progress quicker from here on, but it is great to have two young starlets like this who can perhaps spur each other on.  Both exciting and with potential and its going to be interesting see how they both develop.

Hasn't Redmond scored more than once for Birmingham at this level and once in the Prem to though?

 

[Lake District Canary]

Hasn't Redmond scored more than once for Birmingham at this level and once in the Prem to though?

Yes, you're right, but I don't know how many.  He's scored for England u21's too, Josh has scored three in the Capital Cup last season and this, but I'm just going on what we've seen this season in league matches, which to me has to be the benchmark for a comparison.

 

[CanaryOnTheWire]

If you're just going on two matches and including a goal in which the keeper wasn't even in his goal then I don't see how you can justify your argument. I do not think we have seen anywhere near enough of Josh Murphy to suggest he's going to bring similar output to the table as Redmond, who averaged one key pass (a pass or cross leading to a direct shot on goal) per appearance (34 in 34 games)* in the Premier League- as previously stated, as an inverted winger against a better standard of full back in a functional and rigid setup. The fact Redmond only achieved 3 assists* from these key passes is due more to the poor quality of finishing from our strikers (and no doubt in a few cases the chance created was of a low quality due to the pass from Redmond not actually being that good or the defender closing down well etc). 

Point is LDC, we have a whole season of data on Redmond which makes for decent basis of analysis of his ability- and adds some weight to the prediction that he will benefit from more time on the ball and therefore more ample opportunity to make things happen. How Murphy has, or could have performed...we have next to nothing on that, but he'll have to go some to be better than Redmond, who really isn't as bad as the scapegoaters like to make him out to be.

*Source: Opta

 

[Lake District Canary]

Time will tell COTW.   I liked the fact that Murphy chose to pass the ball to Grabban instead of going for it himself - to me it showed a level of maturity to realise the best outcome for a situation.   Redmond - on last season's evidence - would have got the sight of goal and maybe blazed it over the bar.  Murphy's goals against Crawley were first rate too, as was his strike against Watford last season.

I also liked Redmond's cross against Bn'mouth of course, showing signs of controlling his play a little more, so I'm pleased that both of them are showing good signs.  Redmond always gives me the sense that one day he is going to start finding the target more and once he does, he will score plenty.   Hopefully soon! 

I think that the goals Murphy has scored and the impact he has made when brought on, has shown he will be a strong player for us this season, but as you say, its early days yet and we can only speculate - but the possibilities for both players are mouth watering.