Andre Wisdom

[KeiranShikari]

After playing the full 90 minutes yesterday I wouldn't be surprised if Turner stayed. Including him we would have 5 central defenders, 2 of which can play right back. I think if we are out for another defender it will just be that competition left back. 

Guess he could have just been played to prove his fitness to any onlooking clubs. Same with Wolf, perhaps. 

 

[GJP]

I have a friend who's a Liverpool season ticket holder and watches all their reserve games as well, and has done for years. His comment on Wisdom was that he was amazed he was being loaned out as he expected him to challenge their first team centre backs. He says he's strong as an ox, fast and a tremendous signing for us, but hey, what does he know compared to a couple of dozen embittered Baggie fans?

I will say from the start that I'm not writing Wisdom off but...

WBA fans are talking about Wisdom at first team level. Your Liverpool friend is really talking about him at reserve level.

 

[KeiranShikari]

Relegation confirmed.

 

[The Great Mass Debater]

Just not sure why Liverpool are loaning him out? Not prepared to give him first team opportunities with them? Thye either dont think he's good enough, or werent convinced enough by his time with West Brom.

If we'd bought him I wouldnt have a problem, as he'd be ours to develop. I dont want other teams youth players, and if their parent club doesnt consider them a youth player, but doesnt think they are good enough for their first team then why arent we investing properly and buying these players?

He might prove to be a decent player. But Id rather we were more ambitious. I dont think he's above a level of player we could buy. If we need a new CB or RB or whatever we're considering him to be, we can buy the same level of ability and Id rather we did

 

[Indy_Bones]

I'm going to stick my neck out here, and say that if Wisdom was more experienced and at a smaller club than Liverpool, he'd be a 10mil+ centre half who'd already have played 100+ prem level games, and would possibly be at the outer limit of our reach as a signing.

I think this is a very good loan deal that can only benefit us, just a shame we don't have the option to sign him at the end as I think he'd be worth every penny.

 

[Dubai Mark]

Oh he is quick having seen that Manure clip, good feet too and plenty of effort......he'll do nicely.

 

[The Great Mass Debater]

Can only benefit us

I disagree. We're benefitting Liverpool. We'd benefit more if we attempted to sign a player permanently of a similar level, who was ours at the end of the season. Any progress he made during that period would be to our benefit, not a player or a club we have no investment in.

I have no problem with us using the loan market to bring in someone special we couldnt ordinarily get. I dont think Wisdom is that. I think we could easily buy a player of his calibre and at the end of the season he would still be our player and we would be looking for another temporary finger in the leak.

Properly plaster your wall, dont just bung some polyfiller in there

 

[KeiranShikari]

For the amount of money we're spending on Wisdom I doubt we could get much better. Would probably have to be an import and would be a risk the club don't seem to be willing to take at this moment in time.

We're adding some much needed athleticism to the back line and allowing money to be spent elsewhere. 

 

[The Great Mass Debater]

What would you estimate we have to spend though in terms of a transfer kitty? (I know its more complicated than that factoring in wages and signing on fees etc) because up until now we've spent circa 7m on Brady 2.5m I think it was for Dorrans and this will be 1m for Wisdom with Mulumbu on a free.

Are we expecting many more big-money signings in the next month? Consiedering we've been looking at 1.5m strikers Im not expecting anything major. Think Brady is our big signing.

If for sake of argument we have 25m available and the window slams shut with us having spent only 10m, Ill be pretty miffed that we have patched up the team rather than properly investing

 

[Canaryboy]

Alex Neil said that we were going for a "few" more. Not sure if Wisdom is one of those, and that takes us down to a "couple", but I think we can expect a couple more signings. 

 

[KeiranShikari]

It sounds as if you'd be happier if Mulumbu had a year left on his previous contract and we'd signed him for 8m.

Our first team budget will have increased but so will have the player/staff wages. We've signed 4 very good players in positions that we needed. More will join, if they're of the quality we've signed so far then we'll have the strongest squad here since the 90s. The club will also be looking to save some of the budget for potential moves in January. 

It's really weird seeing people complaining about us not spending enough when we signed a 7 million pound winger less than 24 hours ago.

 

[Canaryboy]

We'll we've currently got 25 senior players, so one thing is to consider is that we need to find new homes for some players to make room for arrivals.

Its one thing saying that we aren't signing enough players, but we literally need to choose a player to sacrifice for each one that comes in now.

Lafferty is an obvious one, but I've seen people say that they hope RVW is involved, others saying that Andreu looks like he has something to offer, others saying that Vadis can be an important player, others saying that they think Turner will stay. 

Each player arriving now needs to result in a player left out of the 25. So either we give those players a chance, or we sell/loan them out and replace them.

Is all good saying that we should be spending our budget, but not so good if we are paying wages to players that we can't play. 

If people think that things are moving slowly then it may not be with having difficulties attracting incoming transfers, but with trying to find new homes for those who will have to make way. 

Take Michael Turner for example. I'm sure it was easy enough to get Fulham to cover his wages, when he was on his reduced Championship salary. But he's just had a 100% pay rise, Fulham aren't going to pay that. 

So if we were to decide to loan him out, at say 50% of his wages, and replace with another centre back, we're paying for 1.5 players instead of 1 player. 

That directly impacts the budget. We're far too well managed to find ourselves having several senior players being paid whilst ineligible to play, so I reckon we've got to sell before we can buy. 

 

[The Great Mass Debater]

It sounds as if you'd be happier if Mulumbu had a year left on his previous contract and we'd signed him for 8m.

Our first team budget will have increased but so will have the player/staff wages. We've signed 4 very good players in positions that we needed. More will join, if they're of the quality we've signed so far then we'll have the strongest squad here since the 90s. The club will also be looking to save some of the budget for potential moves in January.

It's really weird seeing people complaining about us not spending enough when we signed a 7 million pound winger less than 24 hours ago.

Not at all. Mulumbu on a free is a great piece of business. Its the permenance of solutions that concerns me, not token splurges. Im also concerned at the idea of holding back for January, as when it came to it last time, Hughton didnt spend (or wasnt allowed to spend) anything, and it was often said the January market was inflated or teams didnt want to surrender their best players.

I want permenant investment from the club, and loans arent that.

 

[Canaryboy]

With Andre Wisdom I'd consider it a possibility that we failed to bring in a permanent solution, we were linked with a lot of right backs earlier in the window and they all seem to have moved elsewhere. We aren't alone in having to borrow players from bigger clubs, West Ham wanted to sign Carl Jenkinson on a permanent and they are loaning him again.

It must also be difficult to attract players as a newly promoted side, considering how many go straight back down, especially when you are writing a 50% pay cut into their contracts. We'll find it easier to sign players next summer if we stay up. 

 

[KeiranShikari]

It's an investment in keeping the club in the Premier League though.

 

[The Great Mass Debater]

It's an investment in keeping the club in the Premier League though.

Yobo and Gutierrez werent, and they were the last loans we had. They were short-term patch ups rather than true solutions. A loanee just shores things up - it doesnt build a team, a spine or a foundation. Unless he's trying to earn a permenant move here (which I doubt is the case unlike Dorrans for example) his future is not entwined with the clubs. If he improves by making mistakes with us its not us who benefit, its his parent club at our expense. Im willing to take htat risk with our own players, not someone elses.

I dont like being a springboard for someone elses prospects. We should aspire to be more than a nursery

 

[Canaryboy]

I prefer permanent deals, but not if it means getting an inferior player. I wasn't excited by the prospect of Matt Lowton on, what, a three year contract? 

Getting Wisdom on loan for a year allows us to see if there are better options for us next summer. Would be nice if we had an agreed price on Wisdom though, we were priced out of Kyle Naughton because of the good season that he had with us. 

 

[KeiranShikari]

I think we're aspiring to stay in the Premier League right now. Wisdom will improve our team and that is all I care about. Feels much more like the Kyle Naughton loan than the two you mentioned anyway, he was great.

Loanees don't build foundations, which is great because we already have those. 

As for him maturing here, he won't be playing in the side if he's making mistake after mistake and costing us games. Of course he will make mistakes, all of our players will. 

I guess some aren't happy unless they're moaning about something.

 

[The Great Mass Debater]

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/sport/football/hull/bradford-city-set-to-reap-the-rewards-from-wisdom-s-latest-move-1-7384071

Good to see some money filtering down the pyramid

 

[Lavanche]

Mayby not 10 million, but he is about same level what we have and distance between Liverpool and us is still huge so no wonder he wont play for them but could still do the job for us.

If I exaggerate it is quite much as saying that Kevin de Bruyne or Kagawa wouldn't strenghten us as ManU and Cheaper were not interested about keeping them.

It can be that Wisdom wont do it for us, but he has experience and talent to do just fine and can play multiple position.

Our current rightbacks didnt do so well last time we were in premiership  do I'm glad we got new player to challenge them and cover our CB's at same time.