Bassong to Watford

[Canaryboy]

Lots of people saying that it is stupid to loan him to a promotion rival.

It could be a mistake, it could be a masterstroke. In their next 8 games they play Forest, Boro, Ipswich and Derby. The entire top 6, excluding us and them.

They also play Wolves and Cardiff during his loan spell. So assuming that Watford are making a wage contribution, they could actually be paying us to do us a favour. 

Time will tell. It is certainly a risk, and I do find it a bit of an odd decision. But it could quite easily work out in our favour. 

 

[SussexYellow]

It would have been great to have a fit and motivated Bassong back for us - but despite a couple of hopeful indicators that looks an extremely unlikely prospect.

NA said talks had been taking place at all levels and included his agent, but he concluded with "never say never". That does not sound like a reconciliation was on the horizon.

So Bassong either stays with us as an expensive non player or there is a parting of the ways. In which case why Watford? Well it would need to be a club able to offer enough to make the deal attractive, and a club that wanted him. Maybe there was only Watford in the queue, so the club had the choice of doing business with them or no one. Obviously my thoughts are speculative.

 

[-Matt-]

Sorry Dubai mark, but I couldn't disagree more. I think it's shown strong management by NA. Something has clearly happened in the dressing room. The full details might remain a mystery, but bassong wouldn't have been ostracised as he has for no reason. I can only see it being a poor attitude.

With that in mind I think it shows real strength of character for NA to keep a high paid, talented former captain away from the first team. I also think its great of the board to allow him to manage in the way he sees fit, when many boards would be pressuring the manager to include their (likely) highest paid player.

 

[GazzaTCC]

I seem to recall McNally saying at the recent supporters group meeting that there was one sale that "fell through" at the last minute. No name mentioned but widely assumed to have been Seb.

This loan is perceived to be a stop gap until the window reopens in January.

 

[It's Character Forming]

That's tge problem - he could well show the sort of form he had early in his time with us, for a while.

My guess is he's now a negative influence just to have at the club and they just want him out.

 

[BroadstairsR]

That's one aspect of the central defenders problem sorted out for the time being.

Presumably if SB does well at Watford, and he well might, then we shoud get a fair fee for him and probably from the Hornets.

I am not overly convinced by our strength in this position now though but. having been unable to see any games, bar one, I have to rely upon my perusals of forums to go by and now have the following questions for those in a better position to comment:-

Is Hoiveld quite as dodgy as some of the reports I have read indicate, or is he just finding his feet?  Adams did resort to Martin in his place for the game before last after all.

Is "Miggy" the good prospect that has been promised and is he far from first team selection?

Is Cuellar match-fit yet, and if not why not? If to the affirmative, why was he actually signed in the first place?

Bennett remains at least a month away from being ready for selection, correct?

Clearly the untimely injury to the latter sparked off the frenzy of activity for this position and i feel that the Turner/Bennett combination remains our strongest even thoughAdams initially  preferred RM to the Bennett.

Is it fair to say that, as far as central defenders go, we now have quantity rather than quality?

.

 

[GJP]

I think it would seem that we've got more quantity than quality.

I don't think many (if any) Norwich fan would argue about Turner's place in the team. But there's no real convincing candidate to play alongside him.

Cuellar has obviously proven himself to be a good defender in the past and has got the best reputation of any but clearly seems to be short of the sharpness needed.

And if Miquel isn't ready to compete this season in the Champs then what chance is there of him being what we need in the Prem next season?

 

[Safri15]

I've said on a few threads that a few close friends of mine who are Arsenal fans were quite surprised we signed Miquel, mainly as they thought he could have done a job for them after a few more season out on loan playing regular football. I think if he won't be ready for us this season, next season in the Prem could be his year, but he'd need to be playing football for that to happen, not just sitting on the bench.

I'd like to see him playing along side Turner to see what he has got in his locker now. But I think Bennett and Miquel is the partnership for the future.

I've not been that impressed with Jos at all and think he is the weak link in our defence at the moment. I don't really know much about Cuellar other than he is another CB on our books with very little pace, which unfortunately seems to be a running theme...

 

[GJP]

Safri, you say "I think Bennett and Miquel is the partnership for the future" how far into the future do you see that being the case and what league will we be playing in?

 

[SussexYellow]

Broadstairs you raise a good question as to why we signed Cuellar in the first place.

The Carlos Cuellar of 4 years ago I think would have been in the starting 11. However we do not have that one, we have the one of today. As you suggest he does not seem to be likely to get in the 18 let alone the 11.

So why did we sign him? My guess is that he was insurance in case we did not get any other defenders. Had we have known that we were going to sign 2 on the final day of the window I doubt if we would have signed him. Hindsight is a wonderful thing!

 

[Din]

I think it would seem that we've got more quantity than quality.

I don't think many (if any) Norwich fan would argue about Turner's place in the team. But there's no real convincing candidate to play alongside him.

Cuellar has obviously proven himself to be a good defender in the past and has got the best reputation of any but clearly seems to be short of the sharpness needed.

And if Miquel isn't ready to compete this season in the Champs then what chance is there of him being what we need in the Prem next season?

To be fair, Bennett and Turner seemed very solid in the couple of games they played, and I think once Bennett comes back from injury that will be our first choice. 

 

[Yellow Fever]

Turner, Bennett, Martin and Cuellar are all right-sided defenders, whereas Hooiveld and Miquel are left-sided defenders. Given that Bennett is out for months and Martin is needed at RB, Cuellar is a logical signing. 

 

[Safri15]

GJP - To your question of how far into the future will Bennett and Miquel's partnership be. I think if they played together at this level, this season they would be ready for the prem next year. I'm a firm believer that CB partnerships need some time to bed in and IMO neither player is really experienced enough to do that in the Prem. However half a season of playing Championship football together, maybe next season wouldn't be too far fetched whatever level we are playing at.

I haven't really seen enough of Miquel to know that would work TBH, maybe that's a pipe dream. If we gain promotion this year (sorry I can't bring myself to say 'when' and jinx it) maybe that will put a death to the idea, and Turners good form will keep Miquel/Bennett out anyway. If we didn't go up (god forbid) then the whole of next season in the champ would definitely give them that opportunity, but obviously would rather they didn't have that chance.

I must say though that if Miquel is as good as my Arsenal mates are hyping up to be, we would have seen him in the starting 11 by now. We don't have that luxury of seeing him train day in day out so will assume Adams knows what he's doing playing, what I perceive as, an under performing Jos ahead of him. 

 

[Lake District Canary]

I still find it quite surprising that whenever centre backs are mentioned that Martin often seems to be the last choice with some people.   What Martin has over almost any of the other full backs is a better level of skill in passing and distribution of the ball.  The defender's main job is to defend, but what they do with the ball is important too.  Also, Scotland may not be the world's top footballing team, but they have improved and don't seem to let many goals in - and we don't seem to let many goals in either when Martin is at centre back.   So he must be doing something right.    Bassong on his day was a good passer too.  A useful asset to have in a CB.

 

[eatonparkboy]

To be fair, if we had converted a few more of our chances, and I know other teams can say the same, then I don't think we would even be discussing CB partnerships and quite happy for Bassong to disappear.

Obviously Arsenal have been pleased enough with Chambers progress to let Miquel go. But with their involvement in the CL, I guess they don't really want to wait for someone to "mature". Ayala impressed Liverpool at 18 but look where he is now.

I honestly don't believe that any of our CB's would be good enough for the Prem. But it is difficult to see where you can go out and buy anyone of a better calibre. There simply aren't enough good defenders around.

So to me, I think its just like the cricket. We don' have a good enough spinner, so don't worry about it. Somehow the paceman have to cope. And I think that is what we will have to do in defence. Cope and hope the rest pop the goals in and take the pressure off.

 

[SussexYellow]

Turner, Bennett, Martin and Cuellar are all right-sided defenders, whereas Hooiveld and Miquel are left-sided defenders. Given that Bennett is out for months and Martin is needed at RB, Cuellar is a logical signing.

I am still not convinced Rick. We had Martin as cover on the right side with Whittaker at RB. If we got really short then the option of a loan, plus one of the left sided CBs could cover as well.

I would be surprised if Cuellar gets many calls to the 18 let alone start. Hindsight I feel will show him to be a signing surplus to requirements further to the subsequent signing of Hooiveld and Miquel.

 

[Canaryboy]

Cuellar in his prime was a top Premier League centre back and a level above any of our other centre backs.

But he's 33 now and has had injury problems throughout his career. He played just 4 times for Sunderland last season, and Adams hasn't picked him, so we probably just have to assume that his legs have gone? 

I was excited by his signing because I know how good he was for Rangers and Villa. But if he can't dislodge Hooiveld from the team (who I've not been impressed with at all) then maybe he just doesn't have it in him. Would like to see him play and make a judgement myself though! 

 

[Canaryboy]

I honestly don't believe that any of our CB's would be good enough for the Prem. 

I believe that Michael Turner is a good Premier League centre back. We need a pacey player beside him though, if we go up. Ryan Bennett has typically done a job when called upon in that league. 

Cuellar and Hooiveld are on one year deals, don't expect either of them to be here next season even if we fail to get promoted. 

I don't really understand why we brought in three centre backs. 

 

[GJP]

I believe that Michael Turner is a good Premier League centre back. We need a pacey player beside him though, if we go up. Ryan Bennett has typically done a job when called upon in that league. 

I would say Bennett has failed to convince in the Premier League.

 

[hogesar]

Any partnership this season, regardless of what people think is required for the future - has to include Michael Turner because he is comfortably our best CB.

However, we don't have another CB who is as good as him, as consistently as he is.

I like Ryan Bennett but he has lacked consistency and has made the odd mistake here and there when he has played, which makes his ability questionable. In his favour - it's hard for a CB if they're not playing week in, week out. Maybe with a good run in he'd be ok.

I would say I don't think Hooiveld has shown he has much more about him than Ryan Bennett - but clearly if he's come in on loan and is playing ahead of him - it suggests the management think otherwise.