Champions find a way

[SussexYellow]

Posted Yesterday, 12:49 PM

SussexYellow, on 17 Sept 2014 - 08:44 AM, said:

You are Chris Hughton and I claim my £10.

Ginja replied to the above comment which was in response to a "I will take 0 - 0" comment:

Hindsight is a wonderful thing isn't it? It's easy the day after to come on and make smug sarcastic comments with the FT reading 0-3 to Norwich but the fact of the matter was at the time we were poor and Brentford were looking most likely to score. I'm sure a lot of Norwich fans would have taken the draw at half time and I wonder what you were thinking at the time?

OK it was flippant, but it is not about being sarcastic, it is about mindset.

It is often said that champions find a way to win even when they are playing badly. If we are going to get out of this division (upwards!) then this is the attitude we must adopt. If we settle for a draw every time things are not going well then automatic promotion may well be out of reach and even reaching the play offs may become a struggle.

The point is that we now have a manager, albeit inexperienced, who is prepared to change things and go for a win rather than settle for a draw. Yes we may lose some but we will win more, and accumulate more points. If we truly believe we have the better squad we should not be accepting draws.

That said I am sure we would all like to see more games where we exert control rather than finding a way to win.

Apologies for dragging this up from a closed thread (Brentford match thread) but I missed the opportunity to respond.

 

[eatonparkboy]

I do believe there is a difference though. And that is between the team and the supporters.

Even though Neil has pledged attacking football, I am sure there will be times when he will accept how the cards have been dealt and make sure he doesn't lose, especially to a close rival.

As supporters, I think we always dream of another goal and if we are happy with a performance, we don't want the final whistle to blow. Whereas, the "professionals" are happy to get off the pitch with no collateral damage.

 

[SussexYellow]

True Eatonparkboy there will be some games where it will be important, not to lose, the 6 pointers with close rivals particularly if we are ahead. However at this stage of the season it is still too early to know which will be those games. I doubt very much that Brentford away will be one of them. No sure that was a "collateral damage" game.

I am also not so sure the difference between the players and the supporters is that much. I think after 85 minutes of the Blackburn game many supporters would have been thinking do not lose it now. Yet in his interview Bradley Johnson said the team still thought they could win it at that point.

To me the gamble, if that is the right word, is a good one you are risking one point to try to get three. A good return particularly if you factor in that parking the bus may not even bring the one. Plus it should be a gamble with loaded dice, loaded in our favour if we believe we have the better and fitter players, and a squad with greater depth.

Bottom line is that in my opinion I do not think we will get promotion by playing for draws. Or for that matter become an established premier league team with that mindset. Yes there are more games where a draw is an acceptable result in the premiership but surely the lesson of the last season and a half is that a strategy of trying not to lose will at best only yield a temporary stay of execution.

 

[The Ghost of Michael Theo]

I don't expect there to be too many games where we dominate in this league. Even 3-0 wins are rarely comfortable these days, as the Brentford game showed. I hope that, over the length of the season, quality will prevail. That's how I feel the Brentford game ended. They couldn't turn domination into points with some quality when it mattered.

Also on from your original point, there will also be times where changes made to chase a game don't work for one reason or another. There will be times when changes may backfire and we end up dropping points from a position where we were drawing or better.

It will be interesting to see the reactions then from the masses, given our recent history with our last manager.

 

[Yellow Fever]

IMO, away games will always be difficult, but City has now won 3 aways on the trot. Adams said that he was aiming at six points from the last 2 and he got them by not backing off and playing for a draw. With Odjidja coming into the team and Hooper and Howson almost back from injury, his attacking options have increased, but as he says, it isn't just about the goalscoring:

"You look at Cameron’s impact and he is showing why I signed him. I go back to the philosophies and strategies we had with players. You don’t just sign a player to score you goals, you want them to do that and offer other things that fit in with the team. You talk about tempo and pressing and we need more than just a goalscorer so with him and Lewis you’ve seen the goals are in the locker but they also have the high work rate and desire. It could come down to goals scored and we have targets for that but one of the pleasing aspect is our goals against column. We look okay at both ends of the pitch but we realise it's the attacking end that sends the fans home happy.”

 

[Yellow Fever]

The feelings are mutual, it seems:

http://www.pinkun.com/norwich-city/cameron_jerome_is_enjoying_a_new_lease_of_life_at_norwich_city_1_3776338

The dressing room must be buzzing!

 

[Stevie G]

 I'm sure a lot of Norwich fans would have taken the draw at half time and I wonder what you were thinking at the time?

Sorry but I wouldn't have taken a draw at half time. Yes we were on the back foot for the last 15 minutes but I truly believed we were going to win it

 

[Salopian]

I read somewhere of someone who thinks that we may be employing a policy of soaking up pressure in the early part of the game, in order to play with pace later when the opponents are tiring. Although Cardiff and Brentford may suggest this, I don't subscribe to it. It seems to me dangerous. Cardiff could have been 3-0 up soon after half time, and almost out of sight.

The fact remains, however, that we have been forced back onto defence in the last two away games, I suspect from the tactics of the opposing managers.We didn't play very well in both second periods, except for John Ruddy, and Cardiff did score two goals from mistakes by us.

We are capable of the second half brilliance, however, and scoring 7 goals in two away games. When did we last achieve this? And we did have periods of possession in the poor first halves.

The conclusion I draw is that if the defence plays as it should, and Ruddy continues to show the form, then possession by opponents should not be a great worry. I am not going over to the Lambert philosophy "If you score, we'll score more" . Rather, I am saying that we have talents everywhere on the pitch, and ought to be too good for most teams if we are on form.

 

[eatonparkboy]

True Eatonparkboy there will be some games where it will be important, not to lose, the 6 pointers with close rivals particularly if we are ahead. However at this stage of the season it is still too early to know which will be those games. I doubt very much that Brentford away will be one of them. No sure that was a "collateral damage" game.

I am also not so sure the difference between the players and the supporters is that much. I think after 85 minutes of the Blackburn game many supporters would have been thinking do not lose it now. Yet in his interview Bradley Johnson said the team still thought they could win it at that point.

To me the gamble, if that is the right word, is a good one you are risking one point to try to get three. A good return particularly if you factor in that parking the bus may not even bring the one. Plus it should be a gamble with loaded dice, loaded in our favour if we believe we have the better and fitter players, and a squad with greater depth.

Bottom line is that in my opinion I do not think we will get promotion by playing for draws. Or for that matter become an established premier league team with that mindset. Yes there are more games where a draw is an acceptable result in the premiership but surely the lesson of the last season and a half is that a strategy of trying not to lose will at best only yield a temporary stay of execution.

I did manage to contradict myself on this point on a different thread by saying I felt we could emulate Leicester last season and win over 30 games without too many draws.

 

[Yellow Fever]

I read somewhere of someone who thinks that we may be employing a policy of soaking up pressure in the early part of the game, in order to play with pace later when the opponents are tiring. Although Cardiff and Brentford may suggest this, I don't subscribe to it. It seems to me dangerous. Cardiff could have been 3-0 up soon after half time, and almost out of sight.

The fact remains, however, that we have been forced back onto defence in the last two away games, I suspect from the tactics of the opposing managers.We didn't play very well in both second periods, except for John Ruddy, and Cardiff did score two goals from mistakes by us.

We are capable of the second half brilliance, however, and scoring 7 goals in two away games. When did we last achieve this? And we did have periods of possession in the poor first halves.

The conclusion I draw is that if the defence plays as it should, and Ruddy continues to show the form, then possession by opponents should not be a great worry. I am not going over to the Lambert philosophy "If you score, we'll score more" . Rather, I am saying that we have talents everywhere on the pitch, and ought to be too good for most teams if we are on form.

IMO, it's more a case of taking fewer chances in the first half away from home in order to keep the shape and play percentage football. Cardiff did score two excellent goals after possession was conceded, but they didn't exactly overrun us. Well, not like we did them later in the second.

 

[SussexYellow]

Just to be clear this was not me saying I would take a draw but the poster I was responding to.

Probably obvious from my original post, but just for clarity!

 

[SussexYellow]

I don't expect there to be too many games where we dominate in this league. Even 3-0 wins are rarely comfortable these days, as the Brentford game showed. I hope that, over the length of the season, quality will prevail. That's how I feel the Brentford game ended. They couldn't turn domination into points with some quality when it mattered.

Also on from your original point, there will also be times where changes made to chase a game don't work for one reason or another. There will be times when changes may backfire and we end up dropping points from a position where we were drawing or better.

It will be interesting to see the reactions then from the masses, given our recent history with our last manager.

Now that would be utopian if every time we made a change up it ended in victory!!!

As you say there will be, hopefully just the odd, occasions where it backfires and we do not even get the draw. But we need to remain positive and hopefully the successes will greatly outnumber the failures. I have no doubt though that every failure will picked over on these forums!

 

[mustard gas]

NA and the players are still getting used to this league, and in several instances, each other. Glitches in performances are to be expected. Overcoming these instances and moving forward shows character and improves overall performance. I should run seminars on the subject.