Deadline Day Dealings

[eatonparkboy]

We don't have to debate Martin's best position to know that 6 defenders in a Premier League squad is nowhere near enough, and I'm just flabbergasted that we've let Turner leave without another body coming in, even if it were a veteran on a one year deal. 

I forgot that football can make me feel so bloody depressed actually, I'm even questioning Alex Neil's judgement now, selling our player of the season and leaving us with just 3 centre backs, it just doesn't feel right. 

We have a recent history of being shy, as a club, of trying to improve in any way radically. The big clubs, with their wealth and history don't have to alter the proven formula for clubs in their position.

We do and the way that AN arrived, which I thought, at the time, was naive to say the least, but radical. And it worked. And we have to thank the club and no doubt Macca in particular.

And to be honest, I did expect to see some questionable, puzzling but exciting signings. But having witnessed the apparent failure to land our targets, have we returned to the staid old Norwich way of following the recipe and carefully measuring the ingredients. The apparent money we were offering for our targets does reinforce my belief.

 

[Din]

Really frustrated with the whole of today, mainly at the fact that we not only weren't able to get a new centre back in, but the fact that we didn't even seem to try and get one. Obviously it's hard to know for sure without being behind the scenes, but it didn't sound like we even put in a bid for a centre back today (with the exception of the rejected bid for Cook at Bournemouth, but that was right at the beginning of the day). At least it was clear that we wanted to get a new striker in, and had bids rejected for Gayle, Naismith and Walters. The thing is as well, centre back is a position we clearly needed to improve from the second we were promoted. It was obvious that Russell Martin wasn't good enough to be a Premier League centre back before we were promoted, so the fact that we've had all summer to address that, and yet we haven't is really annoying. 

As others have mentioned as well, we have a net spend of about £6m if you include loans. We must still have about £20m, maybe slightly under left in our budget. To not use that is ridiculous. I think all we can really hope for is to keep up the performance levels from our first 3 games into every game until the January window opens, as that should be enough to keep us out of the bottom 3, and we can then spend the £20m or so that we failed to spend in this window, in January.

 

[derehamyella]

but they won't spend that sort of money, I think we all know that deep down. this was the ideal window to it in, time and need.  Now it will be desperation and probably by the time January comes round no buggar WILL want to join us.  

I found it incredible that a manager could admit that he thought that  players did not want to come here, I am wondering if there isn't something to it after all ..   

But I have lost count of the times I have witnessed this

 

[Yellow Fever]

The sad thing about yesterday is that it masked the good signings City have made in this window. Dorrans and Mulumbu were an excellent start at a cost of around £3-4m. They had plenty of time to bed in during the pre-season and it's just a pity about Mulumbu's injury. The whole Brady saga took much away from what already looks to be a good signing, even if we ended up paying too much. Wisdom was also a good signing, even with the disadvantages of a loan player and Kean gives us safety of numbers at GK. Best of all though, IMO, is Mbokani signing and giving us another valuable option up front with competition rather than just cover for Jerome.
 
The shambles yesterday masked all that in many people's minds. The desperate scrambling around for strikers all day - Walters, Naismith, Gayle and whoever else made the club look like total amateurs. Had we met Stoke's asking price of £3m for Walters a day before, none of that need to have happened. Then to top it off, the last minute news that our PotS had signed for Derby and Andreu and Odjidja-Ofoe were going out on loan. Suddenly our squad had dropped from 26 to 23 without any explanation whatsoever from the club. Of course people are going to be angry about that. The very late announcement of Matt Jarvis did little to improve things. Now I can better understand why BJ decided to move to Derby for a 4 year contract at the age of 28 and the prospect of diminishing game time at City, but the whole thing could have been handled better. The one thing I still can't accept though, is that we are now left with a paper thin defence. We have 5 strikers for the lone striker role but only 6 defenders for 4 positions. Why do we have 3 GKs and only 3 CBs? A couple of injuries could turn this season into a shambles.

 

[KeiranShikari]

I don't really think it was that shambolic, although I guess it's more interesting if it was.

We wanted to get rid of our forward in Grabban, to do so we needed to sign a new one. Nobody was doing business until the last day so of course we had to wait. It seems we had a deal agreed but it collapsed because of the other club.

We have 5 strikers now but the chances are that Lafferty will not make the final cut. Or I suppose Grabban if he's refusing to knuckle down for a few months. 

A couple of squad players that have a handful of appearances for the club between them went out on loan. One for a month, presumably to get match fitness. At this point people were too busy complaining to think logically for a second.

 

[Yellow Fever]

We only have a 25 man squad as it is, and one of those, Redmond, still counts as under 21, so there's no reason for 'cuts', Keiran. Do you really feel comfortable with our thin defence?

 

[KeiranShikari]

It's far from ideal but there's no point getting worked up about it. The fact we've not signed emergency cover probably means that Neil would be comfortable playing Wisdom at CB. Olsson played in a development game so should be back to full fitness soon. Until we get a couple of injuries I'm not worrying about a thing. 

Ah, you're right. I'd still be surprised if he wasn't loaned out somewhere really.

We can include Vadis in the squad so he can come back from his loan and play, right?

 

[eatonparkboy]

After a days reflection, I honestly don't believe the club has really absorbed what playing in the Prem means. When the rest of the division says jump you have to ask how high. It doesn't make it right but that is how it is.

I was never bothered about us being in the Prem. The whole area of sport is being called into question. Still 200,000 tickets left for the Rugby WC because the prices are to high. Drugs cheats winning two silver medals at the athletics. England failing again to name a cricket team that doesn't include 11 Englishmen. F1 and endless procession for who has the best car.

And at the end of the transfer window, ManC have spent what probably amounts to the GDP of L2 just because of the owners wealth and we couldn't be bothered to go to £3M for Walters even though we wanted him and then think the manager can do a good job with what he has and compete with ManC and the like.

I think the club has to avoid any financial problems and I'm not unhappy with their prudence at times. But just don't expect to perform let alone stay up for long in a division that spent £867M. 

 

[E2 Canary]

Well, it looks like Alex Neil has a little still to learn about the transfer market. Or maybe it's just that he's not got the contacts book of an older, better travelled manager. Often when you're hiring someone to a management position it's as much about the network they bring with them as their knowledge of the duties they will perform in the workplace. In this case, the chief scout needs to pick up the slack.

I don't doubt the club was searching for more signings. From the way things panned out, it looks like they were expecting a couple of bodies in who didn't make it in the end. Why else trim the squad below 25 "appropriately-aged" players?

I think the reason we didn't attract those extra bodies is not to do with transfer fees as much as the wages we're able to pay. If you're in an unfashionable place with an unknown manager, the money needs to be more than they'd get elsewhere. Good on Mulumbu for convincing Mbokani to come!

I too am worried about the defence, but all we can do now is keep our fingers crossed and hope the defence don't have their thumbs up their arses.

 

[Killiecanary]

Ok....have been weighing this up today...

i was disappointed too yesterday evening.  I wanted to see two or three arrivals too, and was shocked to see BJ go. Now I find my opinion has shifted.  I think the whole hype of 'transfer deadline day' skews our views of what happens.  Actually when we review the whole transfer window ins and outs I'm much happier than I was last night, but for some reason because city weren't on sky sports with that wuckfit Jim White screaming excitedly about our 'business' it feels like a disappointment.  But surely it shouldn't be?  Surely we should be getting our 'business' done early precisely to avoid the lastminute.com nonsense?

So taken as a whole,

Mulumbu - will be a very good player for us and shame he isn't fit at the start of the season.  Strong signing

Dorrans - already a key player for AN - we forget he is a new signing of course because of the loan 

Brady - signed as a left midfielder, versatile enough to cover for Ollsson at LB.  a better wide left midfielder than BJ?  Sadly yes

Kean - no brainer...solid understudy and free third choice keeper.  

Mbokani - the wildcard.  AN wanted a big striker clearly and got what he wanted.  We are all praying he is the real deal...is he our Bony or another RVW? Only time will tell

Jarvis. - I am really happy to see this signing.  Again, clear upgrade on Bradley out wide, and can play either side so gives options for Redmond cover too

i have no problem with any of these 6 signings...5 of whom I think will play frequently in the first team. That's a decent ratio...I look at WEst Ham and Watford - how many of those signings will play every week?  Are the 5 who came in better than what we already have.  Again, I think so on balance but we all know how hit and miss transfers can be.

So to the departures...

Turner....unlikely to ever really feature in the PL..why keep him?

VOO...needs game time desperately.  No brainer again

Andreu....needs to show what he can do and isn't getting into the team at the moment.  Fringe player, loan seems fine

BJ...real head and heart question for me this one.  Our POTS and a huge part of our promotion winning team...but if I am totally honest I don't think he is good enough for the PL and I think that AN already had made his mind up.  He isn't good enough out wide and isn't getting into a midfield centrally composed of Dorrans, Tettey, Mulumbu, Howson, Hoolohan.  And more importantly I think bring in in Brady and Jarvis offers us natural width which we have lacked in midfield when playing either BJ out wide (where he ends up playing an old fashioned inside left position) or Howson (does the same on the right) 

 

[Killiecanary]

Forgot to add...I do think we are light at the back, but suspect AN feels that there is versatility there with Brady, maybe Elliott Bennett too, Whits can play either full back.  Wisdom at either RB or CB.  

But I wouldn't be surprised to see an experienced centre back arrive in the loan window next week.  

Sorry for the  length of my drivel!

 

[Canaryboy]

But I wouldn't be surprised to see an experienced centre back arrive in the loan window next week.  

Premier League sides can't sign players in the loan window, this is what we have until January, unless we find a free agent. 

 

[Killiecanary]

Ah?  I didn't know that!  Thanks CB.

told you it was drivel!

 

[The Great Mass Debater]

I think the likelihood of us signing a free agent is remote. If we were worried about leaving ourselves thin up front if we let Grabban go Id prefer us to have kept RvW and sold Grabban for the 7m we apparently agreed upon with Bournemouth. Im not saying RvW is the answer, but that would have left us with Mbokani and Jerome (new singing duo?) and Hooper/Lafferty/RvW as back up options for one spot. I dont think we desperately needed to keep Grabban with that situation. Heck, I doubt we'd be much weaker even with RvW gone anyway.

Personally, if we wanted 6-7m Id much rather we told Grabban to get lost and kept BJ.

The CB position is concerning. If we start to get injuries or suspensions the order is probably Bassong, Martin, R Bennett, Wisdom and then we really struggle. We dont really have anyone from the youth team, playing Whittaker out of position generally doesnt go well. Olsson could perhaps play there. Elliott Bennett is perhaps veratile to play there in an emergency. Tettey is probably the closest thing, Mulumbu is too short I guess. Gafaiti, is he still knocking around?

 

[The Great Mass Debater]

Forgot to add...I do think we are light at the back, but suspect AN feels that there is versatility there with Brady, maybe Elliott Bennett too, Whits can play either full back.  Wisdom at either RB or CB.  

But I wouldn't be surprised to see an experienced centre back arrive in the loan window next week.  

Sorry for the  length of my drivel!

Perhaps now you realise we cant loan anyone in and we're stuck til Jan your concern might grow again   :wacko:

 

[Canaryboy]

The sad thing about yesterday is that it masked the good signings City have made in this window. Dorrans and Mulumbu were an excellent start at a cost of around £3-4m. They had plenty of time to bed in during the pre-season and it's just a pity about Mulumbu's injury. The whole Brady saga took much away from what already looks to be a good signing, even if we ended up paying too much. Wisdom was also a good signing, even with the disadvantages of a loan player and Kean gives us safety of numbers at GK. Best of all though, IMO, is Mbokani signing and giving us another valuable option up front with competition rather than just cover for Jerome.
 
The shambles yesterday masked all that in many people's minds. The desperate scrambling around for strikers all day - Walters, Naismith, Gayle and whoever else made the club look like total amateurs. Had we met Stoke's asking price of £3m for Walters a day before, none of that need to have happened. Then to top it off, the last minute news that our PotS had signed for Derby and Andreu and Odjidja-Ofoe were going out on loan. Suddenly our squad had dropped from 26 to 23 without any explanation whatsoever from the club. Of course people are going to be angry about that. The very late announcement of Matt Jarvis did little to improve things. Now I can better understand why BJ decided to move to Derby for a 4 year contract at the age of 28 and the prospect of diminishing game time at City, but the whole thing could have been handled better. The one thing I still can't accept though, is that we are now left with a paper thin defence. We have 5 strikers for the lone striker role but only 6 defenders for 4 positions. Why do we have 3 GKs and only 3 CBs? A couple of injuries could turn this season into a shambles.

Nicely summarised really.  

I wouldn't have cared if we'd gone the entire day without signing somebody if we'd simply signed a half decent centre back at some point between 1st July and 31st August.

We will probably be fine with the defenders that we have until January, considering Brady can fill in at left back and Elliiot Bennett could probably fill in at right back, but why tempt fate? Why let Michael Turner leave for the season without first replacing him? 

It just feels negligent. 

Like telling yourself that you'll wait a few months to renew your home insurance, because the odds of the house not burning down are stacked in your favour. 

Imagine if a few injuries leave us wondering whether Michael Turner could have kept us up. He's clearly Championship standard now, but he's better than nobody, I'd rather see him at centre back than Kyle Lafferty. 

Miquel as well, he's a centre back, one who can play left back too, why did we release him only to leave ourselves short of bodies? 

I'm worried that Alex Neil doesn't appreciate how much of a 'squad game' football is at this level. 

 

[Killiecanary]

 

[Killiecanary]

not sure TGMD...I completely get the worry, but I also get a bit fed up with some Norwich fans (not great posters like yourself on this site) throwing their toys out of the pram because we haven't spent mega millions on every single player with a high score on Fifa!  Sometimes we have to trust in the people who run the club and I want to back the manager, who to be fair has surely earned a bit of our trust.  

But I am with you as to the worry about cover defensively.  I think we have strengthened up front in this window with Mbokani.  I think the midfield is stronger with Mulumbu, Dorrans, Brady, Jarvis added.  Defensively I wanted to see one more signing.  But I also think on the other hand we have 2 players for each position, and with Wisdom, Brady, Whittaker, Martin we have players who can play in multiple positions.  I also hope to see RyBen develop into the player we all hope he could be, which won't happen if he gets no game time.  

But would I have liked an additional experienced CB?  Yes.  And for me James Collins would have fitted the bill.  

 

[Killiecanary]

Sorry for weird posting...my iPad playing silly beggars tonight! 

 

[The Great Mass Debater]

What bothers me about the thin defence is we're all talking about injuries. Perhaps a greater concern is form or competition. There isnt really anybody pushing Bassong or Martin. Martin has his feet under the table as he is captain. He knows he's not going to get displaced unless his form really drops. Bassong similarly will have to have a good number of stinkers before Ryan Bennett will get his chance. Even then they'll probably feel pretty safe seeing as Bennett has never really taken his opportunity before. If Wisdom successfully displaces Whittaker at RB it means Bennett is the only competition (or alternative) for the two. A lack of competition surely cant be a good thing.

Similarly Olsson doesnt really have any competition. We dont seem relaxed enough to risk Toffolo yet, so there is noone outside the team pushing him to get in. Unless Jarvis displaces Brady and left back is his only route back to the first team, noone is keeping Olsson on his toes. Competition is healthy, a lack of it worries me