Dieumerci Mbokani

Fenway Frank

Fenway Frank

Well-Known Member
I'm With Indy on this as the stories about his attitude worry me a bit
 
ZLF

ZLF

Well-Known Member
for rvw it has to be worth our while to help pay off a move for him?   Its the base wage that is stopping a move,  even with his willingness to take a pay cut.    Likewise hooper, his wages are preventing us from being able to move him out to the clubs that are interested in taking him,  and clubs that can afford him simply are not interested
 
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Gaffer

Gaffer

Active Member
I just don't get the RvW love in. Lovely lad, decent movement but reacts to the sight of a set of goalposts like a vampire to a basket of garlic. Should have had a hat trick in about 10 minutes either side of HT against the Hammers but never looked like converting the one on one (compare that to Jerome's finish on Saturday) and didn't get a decent contact on either of the others. He's not good enough for the EPL and I don't really see him being here unless we end up trading Hooper as part of a van Dijk deal.
Like people clinging on to their Lehman Brothers shares until the bitter end, some fans just can't accept we wasted our money and need to cut our losses.
 
Canaryboy

Canaryboy

Well-Known Member
I just don't get the RvW love in. Lovely lad, decent movement but reacts to the sight of a set of goalposts like a vampire to a basket of garlic. 
Completely agree Beauseant. People always say that his movement is top class etc, but it all means nothing if you can't bury a chance when it presents itself.

I think some cling on to the possibility that he's just a bit of confidence away from being the next Gary Lineker. 

Can't see it myself, just looks out of his depth in this league.
 
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Din

Din

Well-Known Member
I wouldn't be too against this if we could get him for around the £5m mark, which I seem to remember is what Kiev were asking for earlier in the window. Don't know much about him but he at least looks as if he is a target man type striker, something that we don't really have right now (assuming Lafferty is on his way). 
 
Indy_Bones

Indy_Bones

New Member
I don't really want to go into a lengthy debate regarding RvW, but in short I think he's a talented striker who could easily hit 12-15 goals a season in the prem IF we played to his strengths and setup differently than we do now, but seeing as how this is highly unlikely, I doubt we'll ever see what he can really do.

If we're definitely going for another striker, I'd rather we paid more for a genuinely talented younger player, than take a journeyman striker with a bad attitude and a history of failing to perform in the better leagues....
 
The Great Mass Debater

The Great Mass Debater

New Member
I don't really want to go into a lengthy debate regarding RvW
Why not? I thought that was the point of this site?!

My feelings on Ricky are that I agree - he could hit 12-15 goals a season. But only if he was spearheading Arsenal's attack. I think Ricky is the kind of player that would thrive in a set up like Arsenals, let the midfield do all the work and engineer the chance and be in the right place at the right time to finish it off.

My opinion is that Ricky is somewhat of a luxury player, someone who will do well when carried by the rest of the team - essentially playing for a big fish in a league.

He's not the kind of attrition player a club like ours needs. Totally the wrong singing for us and represents a complete and total failure of understanding from Chris Hughton. When he decided to replace Grant Holt he needed to appreciate better what a player like Holt gave a team like us, and he needed to replace that.

Snobbery was his undoing I feel. he was desperate to get rid of a fat ex-tyre fitter and 'improve' the strikeforce by bringing in 'quality'.

Ooooh, la de dah!
 
Indy_Bones

Indy_Bones

New Member
Mainly because it's a thread regarding Mbokani rather than RvW TGMD, and I didn't want to massively derail it by talking in depth about RvW instead :)

I'd agree with your assessment to a certain degree, although I do think there are a few possible systems and methods of play where RvW would profit instead of just the purer passing approach of Arsenal, but that's by the by.
 
Yellow Fever

Yellow Fever

New Member
I agree about RvW never being a good fit with City. Not sure about the 12-15 goals though when you look at how Torres struggled for goals. 

As for Mbokani, his skills are similar to those of Jerome and we need an experienced striker who can slot into AN's system they way Jerome has. We'd be in big trouble if Jerome picks up a serious injury. Lafferty is the closest we have to a replacement and that would be a big risk.
 
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Scott

Scott

Active Member
I would've thought we need at least one more striker - if Jerome gets injured then we have RvW- who we know can't hit a barn door, Hooper who hasn't really had a sniff pre season, I'm quite surprise neither have been sold actually, especially rvw. 
 
ZLF

ZLF

Well-Known Member
torres is an interesting example of players fitting  - 65 in 102 games for liverpool shows that he was a top class striker,  yet just 20 in 110 for chelsea;  everyone recalls how he struggled at chelsea forgetting just how good we was before in a team that played to and used his strengths.   Not saying the same applies to RvW or Hooper but context and set up can play a huge difference.

Its clear to me that Grabban remains Alexs preference until we welcome (and we will) another into the fold.
 
The Great Mass Debater

The Great Mass Debater

New Member
torres is an interesting example of players fitting  - 65 in 102 games for liverpool shows that he was a top class striker,  yet just 20 in 110 for chelsea;  everyone recalls how he struggled at chelsea forgetting just how good we was before in a team that played to and used his strengths.   Not saying the same applies to RvW or Hooper but context and set up can play a huge difference.

Its clear to me that Grabban remains Alexs preference until we welcome (and we will) another into the fold.
Whilst I agree Torres was a poor fit for Chelsea, like many of the strikers who tried and failed before him (Shevchenko for example), I think Liverpool chose exactly the right moment to sell him (and possibly did the same with Owen and Fowler). Liverpool have a history of turning good strikers into cr*p ones, and I think there was evidence of 'the Liverpool effect' seeping into Torres' game before he left. Torres had gone off the boil before they sold him but did well (are you listening Gordon Brown/George Osbourne) to sell him when still at the peak of his value
 
Beauseant

Beauseant

Well-Known Member
I don't really want to go into a lengthy debate regarding RvW, but in short I think he's a talented striker who could easily hit 12-15 goals a season in the prem IF we played to his strengths and setup differently than we do now, but seeing as how this is highly unlikely, I doubt we'll ever see what he can really do.

If we're definitely going for another striker, I'd rather we paid more for a genuinely talented younger player, than take a journeyman striker with a bad attitude and a history of failing to perform in the better leagues....
I'm really struggling with your logic here. Mbokane has a pretty good scoring record at 3 clubs, less so at two others. He also averages a goal every two games at international level. His "bad attitude" is based on being unhappy about Rebrov mechanically rotating his squad, even when someone's just had blinder.

RvW has bombed in English and French football, and, by your apparent definition also has a "bad attitude" having slated Norwich in the French press and allowed his agent to state that the Championship wasn't "an appropriate stage " for him. "Talented strikers" score even in unsuitable systems, which is why they go for big money. Ricky is a limited finisher who seems to need a system built around him but isn't good enough to justify it. As I've said before, he's a nice lad and I'd have loved him to succeed but he simply hasn't, however many excuses are made for him.
 
KeiranShikari

KeiranShikari

New Member
I think big, ugly workhorses like Mbokani are less sexy than pretty Dutch boys with the physique of a teenage girl.
 
Yellow Fever

Yellow Fever

New Member
I think big, ugly workhorses like Mbokani are less sexy than pretty Dutch boys with the physique of a teenage girl.
We've done the pretty Dutch boys, so I'd rather go with pacey, goal scoring workhorses like Jerome and Mbokani.
 
kirku

kirku

New Member
In the unlikely event that we play two up top, nobody would fancy playing against Mbokani and CJ.

Although, I did say the same about CJ and Laffs...
 
Indy_Bones

Indy_Bones

New Member
I'm really struggling with your logic here. Mbokane has a pretty good scoring record at 3 clubs, less so at two others. He also averages a goal every two games at international level. His "bad attitude" is based on being unhappy about Rebrov mechanically rotating his squad, even when someone's just had blinder.

RvW has bombed in English and French football, and, by your apparent definition also has a "bad attitude" having slated Norwich in the French press and allowed his agent to state that the Championship wasn't "an appropriate stage " for him. "Talented strikers" score even in unsuitable systems, which is why they go for big money. Ricky is a limited finisher who seems to need a system built around him but isn't good enough to justify it. As I've said before, he's a nice lad and I'd have loved him to succeed but he simply hasn't, however many excuses are made for him.
Mbokani has a good scoring record in generally poorer leagues (since when did anyone rave about the Belgian or Ukrainian leagues???), but in both Germany and France he failed miserably, in fact his record at Monaco was worse than RvW's at St.Etienne despite him having much better players around him than RvW did (and people have already slated RvW's scoring record for St.Etienne, so what does that say about Mbokani???)

In regards to his International scoring record, the majority of his goals are against fellow ACON countries like Ghana, Congo and similar, which with respect are hardly heavyweights of football, and certainly not compared to the sides that a European or even South American based international would have to face in the Euro's or World Cup.

RvW 'bombed' for us last time based on Hughton playing in a completely different role than which he's suited combined with a complete lack of decent supply in the process, much like how Henry had a poor scoring record for Juve due him being played on the wing (being fair, he was seen as a winger at the time) but when Wenger played him upfront the picture changed and a legend began. This is similar IMHO, you cannot sign a player like RvW who relies on clever through balls or balls across the 6yrd box and then insist on him playing as a strong target man who needs to hold the ball up! Christ, even Holt lost 50% of his goals under Hughton, yet apparently it's all RvW's fault that he struggled to perform whilst players like Holt get off scot free...

As for 'bad attitude', generally speaking he's shown good regard for our club, our city and our fans, he clearly has an issue with Hughton (and I don't f**king blame him) who in truth has probably destroyed his career unless something changes sharpish and he's also shown a good response to AN and has worked hard and looked good in pre-season (even if the goals haven't come), whereas from what I understand, Mbokani has had issues at pretty much EVERY club he's played at and hasn't been afraid to say so, and based on this I know which of the two attitudes I'd take.

Unless you're talking about world class, 'complete' strikers e.g. Van Persie or Ibrahimovic, then a striker needs good support and supply from his teammates, something which I don't think any Norwich fan can genuinely say RvW received that season. RvW DOES need more of a system around him to play to his strengths, but we should have known this from day one (it's not like his style of play changed that much during his years at Utrecht and Lisbon), and if Hughton wanted a big target man, then he should have damn well signed one, instead of getting a goal poacher who likes to play on the shoulder of the defender and then wondering why it's not working...

There HAS to be some accountability from RvW for his lack of goals and sometimes lukewarm to poor performances, but by the time we got to the infamous 'Ghost Pass', he'd already had his confidence shot to ribbons and was completely demoralized by the whole sorry situation.

Chances are that he'll be moved on in the next month, but if we do keep him, I really do hope that AN used him in the right way, and doesn't expect him to come on for CJ and offer the same to the team because it just won't happen, and it STILL wouldn't be RvW's fault if that was the case.
 

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