Dieumerci Mbokani

[Canaryboy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zanMCGMqvu8

Hmmm.... why isn't video embed working... 

 

[CanaryNath]

That is not last season, it's the year before. 

 

[It's Character Forming]

Frankly, I'm still massively pissed off with how Hughton managed to destroy the attacking, never say die team of players that Lambert got playing above their level at times, and somehow turned them into below par players whilst giving us the worst football i think I've ever seen at CR, and I doubt that I'll ever forgive the guy for doing it.

I'm with you on this one.  I am still angry that Hughton spend record amounts on RVW and Hooper and then found out neither of them suited the sort of system he wanted us to play.  The margins were so tight when we went down, it wouldn't have taken much to keep us up.

 

[Canaryboy]

That is not last season, it's the year before. 

I know, I wasn't answering your question, although I can....

7 starts, 5 sub appearances, 3 goals.

Plus 1 goal for Congo, number of names unknown. 

 

[It's Character Forming]

Bizarre fact of the day is that hooper didnt score that season without elmander by his side.

Not bizarre at all.. Hooper is the sort of player who needs someone like Elmander to play off.

Our problem last season we were in the Prem was that both Hooper and RVW couldn't play effectively up front on their own, so to use them properly we had to have another striker, leaving us with 4 in midfield which meant we had no room for Wes in the team and were short of numbers in midfield, so generally lacked the possession to use the 2 strikers properly.  If we went with one striker up front, we struggled to create anything, especially because any long balls we played were basically a gift to the other side, making it much easier for them to close us down in midfield.

This is why I'm such a fan of Jerome - he's so powerful and quick that no CB will be happy competing with him for a long ball. Grabban causes problems too with his mobility.  If Mbokani is similar to Jerome then I'm interested.

 

[The Great Mass Debater]

Yeah... But look how good this guy is... (actually, there's some pretty cr*p goalkeeping going on right here...)

 

[Yellow Fever]

This is why I'm such a fan of Jerome - he's so powerful and quick that no CB will be happy competing with him for a long ball. Grabban causes problems too with his mobility.  If Mbokani is similar to Jerome then I'm interested.

I think Mbokani is very simHaving Mbokani would ease that worry.ilar to Jerome. Of all of our players, Jerome is the one I'd worry most about if injured. Having Mbokani would ease that worry.

 

[ZLF]

Bizarre only in the extent of criticism that elmander received in proportion the love hooper got.  

Jerome is a good player - but we do know what his prem capability is. 

 

[eatonparkboy]

That's pretty much how I see it. Hughton's "awful football" got us our highest finish in 20 years (but of course clubs were "on the beach", an argument that strangely got sidelined when fans were trying to eulogise Adams' bore draw at Stamford bridge.....). Yes, it was turgid and boring but with an expensive striker who couldn't hit a cow's arse with a banjo and a lack of creativity in midfield as the man bought to provide it, Leroy Fer, lounged in his metaphorical deckchair it was always going to be that way.

Surely you are sidelining things for the purpose of your argument. Hughton had less points and goals than the previous season when we finished lower.

And as a manager, it was Hughton's job to make sure Fer and RVW performed and show the supporters that he could manage and not stand in front of the dug out with arms folded looking clueless.

I was on a different site then, not the PinkUn, and it was divided down the middle about Hughton even during that first season of his, and even many of his Ayes said they wouldn't want two seasons of the same turgid football. I was at his very first home game. QPR, and even as early as that, I remember saying to my grandsons who were with me that we would be in trouble if he continued with the attitude of 38 0-0 draws is safety.

We simply do not have the history, capability, finance etc available to attract top class defenders who will be the bedrock of a campaign in the Prem. It is history I know, but Lambert's and hopefully AN's attacking intentions are the only way we can compete.

 

[It's Character Forming]

I'm not sure we do know what Jerome's Prem capability is - and we need to remember Jerome as he was performing for us before AN joined, compared to his key performances in getting us promoted.

But my point is that he's physically capable of playing the same sort of role that Holt did, which was what we lacked in Hughton's last season (and I blame Hughton for that lack because he was the one who oversaw the strikers brought in).

So I strongly agree with the point that we could do with another player in the squad who can do that too.

 

[eatonparkboy]

I know that a season of football condensed into a few minutes can make any professional footballer look top class, but this video does make him look a bit good...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zanMCGMqvu8

Left foot for balance only but I did like the aerial ability which despite pundits knocking it, is just as valid a way of scoring as walking it in. 

 

[CanaryNath]

I know, I wasn't answering your question, although I can....

7 starts, 5 sub appearances, 3 goals.

Plus 1 goal for Congo, number of names unknown. 

thanks for this

OK, so let's make some assumptions......

Assuming he played 45 mins per match as a sub (unlikely), then this is still a 1-in-3 strike rate.  

That rate over a season starting matches would (possibly) see him score 10-13 goals.

Not bad for £5m, tbh

 

[It's Character Forming]

Surely you are sidelining things for the purpose of your argument. Hughton had less points and goals than the previous season when we finished lower.

And as a manager, it was Hughton's job to make sure Fer and RVW performed and show the supporters that he could manage and not stand in front of the dug out with arms folded looking clueless.

I was on a different site then, not the PinkUn, and it was divided down the middle about Hughton even during that first season of his, and even many of his Ayes said they wouldn't want two seasons of the same turgid football. I was at his very first home game. QPR, and even as early as that, I remember saying to my grandsons who were with me that we would be in trouble if he continued with the attitude of 38 0-0 draws is safety.

We simply do not have the history, capability, finance etc available to attract top class defenders who will be the bedrock of a campaign in the Prem. It is history I know, but Lambert's and hopefully AN's attacking intentions are the only way we can compete.

That's it.  "Highest finish for 20 years" is not a fair comparison because before Lambert got us promoted, we'd only had one season in the Prem in that 20-year period, when we were relegated under Worthy.  So really it's just saying that we finished higher than we had done the previous season under Lambert.  But the truth is our final league position in Hughton's first league season was flattered by the wins in our last 2 games - previously we'd only won 2 games after Christmas.  I remember particularly the home game against Reading which was a vital win (painfully scrapped for), failing which we'd have been right in the relegation mix.  Winning two in a row saw us leapfrog quite a few places in the table.  Contrast that with Lambert when we were safe (for practical purposes) quite early on and took our foot off the gas.

 

[Canaryboy]

That's it.  "Highest finish for 20 years" is not a fair comparison because before Lambert got us promoted, we'd only had one season in the Prem in that 20-year period

That doesn't sound quite right, we were promoted in 2010/11, so the Lambert season was 2011/12.

1993/1994 and 1994/1995 were also seasons in the Prem.

 

[Canaryboy]

I enjoyed our 12th placed finish under Lambert a hell of a lot more than our 11th place finish under Hughton.

More goals, more wins, and players who looked like they were enjoying themselves.  

 

[Beauseant]

That doesn't sound quite right, we were promoted in 2010/11, so the Lambert season was 2011/12.

1993/1994 and 1994/1995 were also seasons in the Prem.

Don't let facts get in the way of a good witch hunt.

"And as a manager, it was Hughton's job to make sure Fer and RVW performed " Yes, because players have no responsibility whatsoever, unless of course they don't perform for a manager you don't happen to have a grudge against.....

This thread has largely become a factually incorrect spewing of bile at an individual who left the club a long time ago. I have no problem with Hughton's sacking but I find it infuriating that his achievements are belittled by bending facts to the poster's purpose. What relevance does the fact that his team won less points than Lambert's in a different season, and therefore a different league? Is Neil inferior to Lambert because we got less points last season than last time we went up?

 

[Canaryboy]

Personally I just think Hughton made the wrong signings in attack during his second summer window, spending the bulk of his budget on two similar players who couldn't play together. 

He'd done a decent job the summer before in rebuilding our defence. 

The RVW signing was a huge mistake, he and we paid a big price for it. If he'd got that signing right and invested the £8m/£9m on a decent target man (Holt mold) perhaps things would have been different. 

He signed three strikers in the same summer and they yielded 8 league goals between them in an entire league seasons, the same number that Holt alone had scored the previous year when fans were saying that he was past his best. In addition, he signed Becchio six months earlier and simply wasn't prepared to use him. 

Then there was that strange decision to sign Guiterrez in the January window instead of a player who may have been able to offer us something else in the final third, even if it were just another Kei Kamara type signing (or even using Becchio). 

It does feel as if he'd played all his cards in the summer, and didn't keep any up his sleeve for January. It can't be denied that all four of the strikers at Hughton's disposal were Hughton's signings, and that for one reason or another they failed to score a sufficient number of goals, so difficult to blame anybody other than Hughton for that.

 

[eatonparkboy]

Don't let facts get in the way of a good witch hunt.

"And as a manager, it was Hughton's job to make sure Fer and RVW performed " Yes, because players have no responsibility whatsoever, unless of course they don't perform for a manager you don't happen to have a grudge against.....

This thread has largely become a factually incorrect spewing of bile at an individual who left the club a long time ago. I have no problem with Hughton's sacking but I find it infuriating that his achievements are belittled by bending facts to the poster's purpose. What relevance does the fact that his team won less points than Lambert's in a different season, and therefore a different league? Is Neil inferior to Lambert because we got less points last season than last time we went up?

Funny you can have a downer on RVW, a failure but not Hughton, a failure. I have no grudge against Hughton. He was just a failure. So is RVW.

But as the thread has largely become a debate about a striker we know little about, it has obviously drifted to the last striker we paid a lot of money for, the guy with the poor aim with the banjo, and assessing the risk posters believe the club will be taking.

You have published your impression of RVW, and others believe that he might not be a failure if played differently. Hence the drift to Hughton and his tactics. And no amount of quotes about his achievements, which in reality in his first season were numerically less than his predecessor can alter the fact he had a win record of less than 30%. And his second season was a disaster. And he was paid by the directors to manage the club and its players and he produced one of the most dire seasons. Of course the players are culpable. But he was charged with sorting that out.

I have no grudge against him, and certainly no bile has been spewed or even sarcasm regarding garlic or cows arses. and would be more than happy to buy him a pint, tell him where I thought he went wrong (my opinion only and hoped he could put me right) and shake his hand and wish him well at Brighton.

 

[Beauseant]

Funny you can have a downer on RVW, a failure but not Hughton, a failure. I have no grudge against Hughton. He was just a failure. So is RVW.

But as the thread has largely become a debate about a striker we know little about, it has obviously drifted to the last striker we paid a lot of money for, the guy with the poor aim with the banjo, and assessing the risk posters believe the club will be taking.

You have published your impression of RVW, and others believe that he might not be a failure if played differently. Hence the drift to Hughton and his tactics. And no amount of quotes about his achievements, which in reality in his first season were numerically less than his predecessor can alter the fact he had a win record of less than 30%. And his second season was a disaster. And he was paid by the directors to manage the club and its players and he produced one of the most dire seasons. Of course the players are culpable. But he was charged with sorting that out.

I have no grudge against him, and certainly no bile has been spewed or even sarcasm regarding garlic or cows arses. and would be more than happy to buy him a pint, tell him where I thought he went wrong (my opinion only and hoped he could put me right) and shake his hand and wish him well at Brighton.

The difference is that, as Canary Boy has pointed out, Hughton had successes but they are now being airbrushed out whereas RvW hasn't done a single thing to justify his £8.5m price tag. I have nothing against RvW and would have loved to see him succeed. My frustration is that those who don't accept that one league goal in a season is a failure, rather than be objective simply heap blame on Hughton while totally absolving RvW. All I would like to see is some balance.

 

[It's Character Forming]

That doesn't sound quite right, we were promoted in 2010/11, so the Lambert season was 2011/12.

1993/1994 and 1994/1995 were also seasons in the Prem.

Yeah I forgot it was that far back.  Obviously 94/95 was another relegation season and 93/94 we were 12th so again thanks to those 2 wins in the last 2 games Hughton ended up one place higher, which (I repeat) massively flattered him IMO.  And I'm pretty sure 92/93 we did a bit better.....