In or Out?

[Boyerboy]

For the last five hours it's just been Pulis.

Is there any evidence he would be interested even if there was a vacancy? Otherwise it's just baying at the moon.

 

[Agent Dale Cooper]

Season one post relegation was always for an experienced manager. I had expected the season to unwind sooner but act now, get Pulis in and we've still got half a shout for the playoffs.

'Half a shout for the playoffs'? With Pulis in charge and 29 games still to go, I'd say we'd have more than half a shout of the top two, and the playoffs should be a minimum requirement.

 

[morty]

'Half a shout for the playoffs'? With Pulis in charge and 29 games still to go, I'd say we'd have more than half a shout of the top two, and the playoffs should be a minimum requirement.

Playing devils advocate (I am using that phrase a lot tonight) you cannot guarantee this, and I assume you're not daft enough to say "Well he couldn't do any worse than Adams"

 

[morty]

I shall throw this oft used phrase into the ring too "Good managers are rarely out of work"

 

[Monty13]

The last 7 games has not been much fun, but I personally don't think, with the exception of the Boro game, we've been playing that badly.

I don't share this utter conviction others seem to have that a change of manager will suddenly see us shooting up the table.

10th is a disapointing place to be but we are 2 points off playoffs and 6 off top, its hardly an insurmountable lead.

 

[Agent Dale Cooper]

Playing devils advocate (I am using that phrase a lot tonight) you cannot guarantee this, and I assume you're not daft enough to say "Well he couldn't do any worse than Adams"

I'm not guaranteeing it, just offering an opinion. I also strongly believe that he would do significantly better than Adams. We need nerves of steel and a fearless approach, and Pulis would instil that. At the moment, we're practically invertebrates.

 

[morty]

The last 7 games has not been much fun, but I personally don't think, with the exception of the Boro game, we've been playing that badly.

I don't share this utter conviction others seem to have that a change of manager will suddenly see us shooting up the table.

10th is a disapointing place to be but we are 2 points off playoffs and 6 off top, its hardly an insurmountable lead.

To be honest, I don't think we have been playing THAT badly either.

But I will throw up a comparison, Sherwood at Spurs. Given a great squad he made himself look good, but finds himself unemployed.

Neil has had it similarly easy, but is still making a bit of a fist of it.

 

[morty]

I'm not guaranteeing it, just offering an opinion. I also strongly believe that he would do significantly better than Adams. We need nerves of steel and a fearless approach, and Pulis would instil that. At the moment, we're practically invertebrates.

I do not disagree in the slightest.

But I am seeing a lot of people throwing the name around without either considering any alternatives, or even considering if he would want the job. 

 

[Agent Dale Cooper]

I do not disagree in the slightest.

But I am seeing a lot of people throwing the name around without either considering any alternatives, or even considering if he would want the job. 

True - if he doesn't want the job then it might be a bit more challenging to find the right candidate. The board must get it right, as failure to go up this year could be catastrophic.

 

[Sharonb]

It's a "sack Adams" from me. I thought Hughton shouldn't have been sacked with 5 games to go and that to appoint Adams at that time was lunacy. I couldn't believe it when the appointment was made permanent either - Why reward someone for getting us relegated when it would have been a perfect time to wipe the slate clean and bring in someone new and experienced, rather than take a punt on a rookie manager. I can't help thinking Adams was the compromise candidate as the whole appointment process seemed to be bizarre. The Joe Royle thing was also pretty strange.

Even during our halcyon days in August/September, we didn't look that convincing despite the results: "We only play the second half" as we admitted on the terraces at Blackpool. Since Shrewsbury there has been a decline, and the draws against Leeds, Birmingham, Bournemouth and Sheff Weds seemed to be becoming part of a trend and not just a blip. We looked fragile when we beat Bolton, and even our wins at Blackpool and Brentford came after dreadful first half performances.

Having been one of those who personally witnessed the utter dross on Tuesday, I had hoped for a response and while we had a good first half today, we were under the cosh all second half and you could just see it was going to end badly.

We are now under immense pressure due to the sheer weight of our expectations. Expectations aside, it would be good to see us just give it a go if nothing else. We look clueless, leaderless on the pitch, out of ideas on the bench. We need an experienced manager to weather the s--t storm which is likely to ensue once the pitchfork brigade get going. I like Adams and really don't want him to go the way that Gunny did. But I hope he does before he gets demonised.   

 

[Sharonb]

I'm not guaranteeing it, just offering an opinion. I also strongly believe that he would do significantly better than Adams. We need nerves of steel and a fearless approach, and Pulis would instil that. At the moment, we're practically invertebrates.

I can't see how Pulis would be in the least bit interested in coming to Norwich. He is obviously waiting for the sacking season in the PL and is probably eyeing up the Villa job for when it becomes available.

I personally disliked his style of play. Definitely not the "Norwich Way" (whatever that may be).

(Sorry Mods, seems to be another thread on possible new manager!)

 

[morty]

Good stuff Sharon.

 

[Sharonb]

Good stuff Sharon.

Thanks Morty, not too ranty I hope!

 

[Din]

Quite frankly if he was sacked now I wouldn't complain. With the quality of the team we have we should at the very least be in the play-offs at this stage of the season.

However, I would personally give him one absolute final chance. 

Our next game is Brighton at home. I think I'm right in saying they have only won one league game since August, I would let him have the international break to regroup and rethink things. I was one of many Norwich fans that was disappointed when he was put in charge, and was very critical of his decision making throughout yesterday's game, however I don't feel that this poor run is all completely down to him. Right at the start of this bad streak of form we played Charlton and Rotherham in successive games. Everyone knows what happened, a mixture of brilliant goalkeeping from the opposition and awful luck effectively lost us 5 points. If we had have got those 5 points then not only would be in at least 4th right now, we would never have gone on this dreadful run, and we'd probably be well clear at the top of the table. Yes this poor run is mainly down to Adams, there's no denying that, but had we had that little bit of luck then we wouldn't be in this position at all. Obviously the fact is that that's what happens in football, but that isn't Adams fault.

It's also still pretty tight at the top of the table. We may be all the way down in 10th, but we're only 6 points off first place Derby. Our next 3 games are at home to Brighton and Reading, and away to Wigan. Win all 3 of them like we should be doing and we'll be in 3rd/4th, plus we'll be in good form.

That's why I would personally give him one more game. If we don't beat Brighton, then fine get rid. If we beat Brighton and then don't beat Reading then fine, get rid, but my point is I would sack him quite yet.

I'll therefore save my vote until after the Brighton game. As I said, if Adams get sacked tonight then I won't complain, if anything I'd be pleased, but if it was me I would give him one final chance.

 

[morty]

Thanks Morty, not too ranty I hope!

Nah, not at all. I think, for the most part, we have been waiting for it all to click for Adams, mainly because we want it to. But when you take a step back, especially today, it just doesn't quite seem like its going to happen, however much we want it to.

 

[Sharonb]

Nah, not at all. I think, for the most part, we have been waiting for it all to click for Adams, mainly because we want it to. But when you take a step back, especially today, it just doesn't quite seem like its going to happen, however much we want it to.

Yes, despite my misgivings I really hoped that it would work out with him, but it seems to be slipping away somehow. I think Adams himself said you need to score three goals a match (or something to that effect) to get promoted? So by his own criteria we are falling far short! 

 

[Dubai Mark]

There is a control about this message board that is really refreshing!

I too genuinely wanted NA to work out and be in place for a long time, despite not wanting him in the first place. I wanted stability, and it was also for that reason that I supported CH a little longer than I should have, BUT...then the Board moved him on when they should have been brave and seen the season out, but that's now all history.

I love this club with a passion like the rest of you and like the majority of you can see where this is heading with no change NOW......but also where it could be heading with a brave Board decision and an experienced manager being appointed....and sure, its a long shot, but Tony Pulis would be exactly what the club needs right now and I guarantee we wouldnt see a complete copy of the style of football played at Stoke during his tenure....he is better than that when he has a decent squad to work with I'm sure.

 

[Canaryboy]

But there are exceptions such as Leicester, Burnley and Hull.

Leicester had to go down to League 1!

Both Hull and Leicester were subject to takeovers by very wealthy businessmen in 2010. So neither is a good example. Hull had at least £30m invested in them before returning this league, and the Leicester owners had invested £53m within the first two years, probably much more since.  So unless the argument is that some tough times in the Championship make a takeover more likely, which is probably true, I don't think either can be held up as a good examples. 

If we don't get promoted in the first two years we face a summer where we will need to find at least £14m to cover a budget shortfall, probably more if we accrue losses during those two years and need to finance any debt. That is a huge sum of money. £14m covers the wages of 13 players on £20k a week. How long could we continue to finance a Category A academy?

Other than Redmond and Ruddy, are there any players in our squad for whom we could realise a transfer fee of in excess of £5m? Under Lambert in 2009 we'd reached rock bottom, the only way was up. It is a long way down from here. I think that people forget just how depressing the period between 2006 to 2009 was, it was grim, and anybody saying that they are glad to be back in the Championship will soon change their mind when we have an actual Championship standard squad. Especially if Ipswich become our superior. 

I realise that I'm being very doom and gloom, but we've all been here before as Norwich fans. This season represents our best chance of returning to the Premier League. Next season may be a possibility if we can at least be in the mix this year and retain our best players (top six?), after that I can only see years of Championship mediocrity, like the five or six years that Ipswich have just had.  

We have to give ourselves the best chance of getting back up before the parachute payments decrease. I don't think Adams looks like he has it in him. I hope that the board have learnt from past mistakes and will make the change prior to the transfer window opening. Anybody who can get us in the top six, and a one in four chance of promotion through the play offs, would do. 

 

[Boyerboy]

Din, in your very good post, you highlight for me it the puzzle at the heart of this remarkably sensible and controlled thread. You describe the almost freakish games against Charlton and Rotherham and then say " this poor run is mainly down to Adams. There is no denying that".

I am still struggling to understand exactly what Adams is doing wrong beyond "They were rubbish. Sack the manager".

We all disagree with team selections but there has been nothing really wrong with his teams. He makes early and bold substitutions.

We are where we are because of freak results and the players losing their way in a couple of games. Neither is obviously Adams fault yet he is blamed. It goes with the territory of course.

I think that the situation is recoverable and he should get the chance to do it. As I've said elsewhere, the role of the manager for good or bad is grossly overrated and I think that Adams has the ability and skills to be a competent or better manager.

Finally, I can see Adams being another Chris Martin. Forced out by the weight of opinion that he's not good enough and needs to find his level only to succeed elsewhere and have fans saying two years later, "Why did we let him go? Big mistake".

 

[Boyerboy]

Just to anticipate the Pinkun responses to this, I am not Neil nor am I related to him.

In the summer I wanted the other Neil and I still think we missed a great opportunity there.