Is Wes Hoolahan a Norwich City Legend?

[Monty13]

Me neither. He's earned his place in City history but his inconsistency is maddening and I do get frustrated by the people who can only seem to see his strengths but ignore his weaknesses. We were wonderfully creative in midfield in the first half last night without him, but Neil was right to bring him on (for a hugely disappointing Hooper) when Charlton went two up top and left midfield less congested. While he picked out a great cross for the winner he had  lost the ball on all four previous occasions that he'd been in possession, yet there were people on Twitter (who I suspect weren't there and therefore had no real clue as to what was happening on the pitch) who were acting as if he'd won the game single handedly. That's what winds the rest of us up.

But on balance do you care if he does three maddening things if the fourth leads to a goal?

Compare him to Tettey, almost the antithesis of him in terms of what you get in the middle of the park. Strong and powerful, brilliantly defensively, good at maintaining possession by playing the simple balls to keep it that way. But he will very rarely be the provider of the cross or key pass that leads to a goal. 

I know what you're going to say, that's not his job, but then neither is it Wes's job to be the best defensively or the best at just retaining possession. He's there to try to play the balls that don't always come off in the pursuit of the ones that do and lead to a chance.

I don't understand why he gets so much stick when he loses the ball or a pass doesn't come off. So much of the play goes through him when he is on the pitch and he never shys away from receiving it, he's constantly looking for it. He's never going to be the player who can do the things he can while keeping his pass completion in the high 85-95% range, if he was, he'd be playing for a Champions League team.

As long as he plays those balls or that cross that leads to a genuine chance a few times a game, he's earned his place for me.

 

[Beauseant]

I think you've just perfectly summed up what irritates those of us who see Wes as a good but inconsistent player rather than the Son of God. Basically we get your view, told what our response to it will be, and why it's wrong, followed by what is effectively "I don't care what anyone else says because I'm right".

Players don't exist in isolation. For everything that one doesn't do someone else has to pick up the slack. Whether you want to accept it or not Wes changes the dynamic of a side, sometimes positively, sometimes negatively. What last night's first half showed, however, is that we can be highly creative while being defensively solid.

 

[Din]

I hope that he doesn't get his testimonial though, because unless he gets a one year deal purely on sentiment (player-coach?), that would probably mean that we're stuck in the Championship with a poor team.

I actually think though as he gets older he could become more of a squad player, even if we're in the Premier League. His game purely relies on his excellent ball control and skill, with pretty much no reliance on pace or strength, which are both things he would lose as he gets older. Obviously as he gets older his stamina is gonna get worse, which is why a squad role would be much more beneficial for both him and the team. 

 

[eatonparkboy]

I think you've just perfectly summed up what irritates those of us who see Wes as a good but inconsistent player rather than the Son of God. Basically we get your view, told what our response to it will be, and why it's wrong, followed by what is effectively "I don't care what anyone else says because I'm right".

Players don't exist in isolation. For everything that one doesn't do someone else has to pick up the slack. Whether you want to accept it or not Wes changes the dynamic of a side, sometimes positively, sometimes negatively. What last night's first half showed, however, is that we can be highly creative while being defensively solid.

I agree with most of that but would point out that in both games we were playing teams probably in the worst of form. So I think both points of view can be supported because of the current opposition.

 

[Beauseant]

I think my point is not so much the point of view, because football is all about opinions, it's the blinkered nature of the arguments being used by Wes devotees. Its usually a diatribe rather than a debate. I've seen one bloke on Twitter categorising any fan who can't  see that Wes is the best player at the club as an f***ing moron. There's no need for it.

 

[Dandy Mountfarto]

I think my point is not so much the point of view, because football is all about opinions, it's the blinkered nature of the arguments being used by Wes devotees. Its usually a diatribe rather than a debate. I've seen one bloke on Twitter categorising any fan who can't  see that Wes is the best player at the club as an f***ing moron. There's no need for it.

The only person in this thread being aggressive is you. You're behaving like a Pinkun poster tbh.

 

[Beauseant]

Can you point out where I'm being aggressive. I appear to have missed it?

 

[morty]

The only person in this thread being aggressive is you. You're behaving like a Pinkun poster tbh.

Seriously?

I have seen nothing here that I would describe as aggressive.

 

[Dandy Mountfarto]

You're right, aggressive is the wrong word, probably should append 'passive' to the front of it.

Everyone else is discussing things politely and Beaseant is calling people 'blinkered', 'ridiculous', mischaracterising people's posts, and accusing people of making things up followed by making things up himself.

Its weird.

 

[morty]

You're right, aggressive is the wrong word, probably should append 'passive' to the front of it.

Everyone else is discussing things politely and Beaseant is calling people 'blinkered', 'ridiculous', mischaracterising people's posts, and accusing people of making things up followed by making things up himself.

Its weird.

Personally I see his comments as in context, and mostly not specifically directed at people in this thread? He clearly stated that these were in relation to friends on his twitterfeed, did he not?

 

[Dandy Mountfarto]

Don't get me wrong I'm not complaining its against the rules or anything. Its just weird that the person talking about other people's diatribes is the one who sounds the most agitated. Monty makes a well reasoned post and its dismissed as being "I don't care what anyone else says because I'm right".

 

[Beauseant]

I think the problem here is that I'm not buying into your arguments and hence have to be diminished in some way. I've tried to debate politely while holding true to my position but you seem to be misinterpreting my disagreement with your fundamental views on Wes as aggression.

What have I made up in your opinion, as a matter of interest?

 

[morty]

Don't get me wrong I'm not complaining its against the rules or anything. Its just weird that the person talking about other people's diatribes is the one who sounds the most agitated. Monty makes a well reasoned post and its dismissed as being "I don't care what anyone else says because I'm right".

I suggest you actually read it again. You're missing out words.

 

[Dandy Mountfarto]

I suggest you actually read it again. You're missing out words.

Which post? I'm not sure I am.

I think the problem here is that I'm not buying into your arguments and hence have to be diminished in some way. I've tried to debate politely while holding true to my position but you seem to be misinterpreting my disagreement with your fundamental views on Wes as aggression.

What have I made up in your opinion, as a matter of interest?

You accused me of making things up, so I check the facts, and post them, you then say "totally incorrect", and posted some wrong appearance stats without attribution.

 

[morty]

What exactly is your issue here Dandy? Can't you accept that someone has a different point of view?

 

[Dandy Mountfarto]

I've no problem with people having a different point of view, I don't agree with you on Hoolahan but neither of us have mischaracterised each others views.

I just found it odd that Hoolahan fans were being characterised as "devotees", "blinkered", "making things up when the stats don't agree", "I don't care what anyone else says because I'm right", "tirades" and "diatribes" when everyone here has been eminently reasonable.

Its tilting at windmills.

 

[Beauseant]

Dandy, as the saying goes, there are lies, damn lies and statistics. I didn't agree with yours, you didn't agree with mine, it happens, no one died. Attribution doesn't make something fireproof, it just shows where you got it from. I didn't bother to attribute mine because I didn't think it was that important.

I enjoy a good debate with fellow City fans, but the process seems to be upsetting you and I can't see any other reason than the fact I don't agree with you about Wes,but, frankly, if you're going to react like this whenever that happens on any subject you're going to create a lot of unnecessary stress for yourself.

There are much more important things in this world to get het up about than your favourite footballer, believe me!

 

[Dandy Mountfarto]

lol are you really saying that appearance figures are subjective?

 

[Beauseant]

Yes, in that a trawl of the internet will throw uploads of anomalies between different sites. However, that's not really the point is it. If those figures are so important to you and it calms you down I'll accept your stats unreservedly, but I still think Wes is a squad player rather than a regular starter, and that seems to be what really upsets you.

 

[Dandy Mountfarto]

You know what, I'm going to leave it there.