Beauseant
Well-Known Member
Happy with that, by why the attitude? I've just responded to all you points politely, yet you've got the hump. I don't understand you, I really don't.
Monty13
Active Member
I'm sorry? "I don't care what anyone else says because I'm right"
I said "As long as he plays those balls or that cross that leads to a genuine chance a few times a game, he's earned his place for me." That's my opinion of why he should be in the team, not me telling anybody I'm right or they're wrong. I accept your points about inconsistency, I merely pointed out that a player with his ability when on his game who could maintain that level week in and out wouldn't be playing for Norwich City, something you have to take into account when talking about Wes's consistency at this level.
Players don't exist in isolation. For everything that one doesn't do someone else has to pick up the slack.
And that is my point which you seemed to have massively ignored, for every Tettey you need a Wes (imo) a player who won't shy away from receiving the ball under pressure and from trying the hard to pull off passes that might just get you a goal.
What last night's first half showed, however, is that we can be highly creative while being defensively solid.
A game in which we let in two soft goals while dominating an opposition is your example of defensively solid? I also presume you have some statistical evidence that backs up that assumption? When Wes plays do we ship more goals than when he doesn't?
what is effectively "I don't care what anyone else says because I'm right".
I was trying to offer a polite response to your argument, it feels a bit like this fits you better than me.
morty
Moderator
Staff member
Thats enough now guys. Theres sensible discussion and theres petty points scoring. Theres other sites for that.
Monty13
Active Member
How am I "petty point scoring?".
I come, respond directly to the post that was directed at mine, retort accusations of not listening to the other side of the argument, further dig into the argument that was made against what I said by clarifying my position and putting my argument within the other posters context, ask for evidence of assumptions and do all politely and as far as I'm concerned eloquently.
Beauseant
Well-Known Member
I made a general point about the tendency for Hoolahan devotees to simply ignore anything that threatened their world view. I think that's clear from the wording and it certainly wasn't personally aimed at you. If you think it was then please accept my apology.
Canaryboy
Well-Known Member
The Wes debate always seems polarised. Either he's a liability, or he's Lionel Messi.
For me there is just the right time to use Wes, and the wrong time to use Wes, and the right place to use Wes, and the wrong place to use Wes.
That Alex Neil chose to play Whittaker in centre mid instead of Wes the other week shows me that he knows where and when to use him.
I think he's more effective when Hooper is on the pitch, they seem to work well together.
For me there is just the right time to use Wes, and the wrong time to use Wes, and the right place to use Wes, and the wrong place to use Wes.
That Alex Neil chose to play Whittaker in centre mid instead of Wes the other week shows me that he knows where and when to use him.
I think he's more effective when Hooper is on the pitch, they seem to work well together.
Last edited by a moderator:
splutcho
Moderator
Maybe the question shouldn't be whether he's a legend, it should be whether supporters have ever been more divided over a player.
In all seriousness, maybe time to agree to disagree and move on. I'm sure no offense was meant from either side, and we are all adults after all.
In all seriousness, maybe time to agree to disagree and move on. I'm sure no offense was meant from either side, and we are all adults after all.
Monty13
Active Member
Personally I think it's more that some take defending him as worshiping him or conversely criticising him as slating him. I genuinely think most supporters opinion actually sits somewhere in the middle of what you describe, it's the debate that always ends up polarised.
I think he's a good player, diminishing with age and not at all a nailed on starter unless it fits with the intended tactics or he's in amazing form. I agree there's a right and a wrong time to use him.
morty
Moderator
Staff member
Which is exactly where I stand.
But I know several people who insist he should start every single game. These people exist.
But I have yet to see anyone, at all, say he should start no games whatsoever.
Monty13
Active Member
That's ok, no need to apologise, although thank you anyway. I took the fact that you'd followed my post with "you've perfectly summed up" as me being lumped in the worshipful category and retorted thusly.
Beauseant
Well-Known Member
No worries, and I can see why you might have thought that, but hand on heart it wasn't intended as a pop at you personally. For the record I think Wes is a wonderful player to watch albeit maddeningly inconsistent, but as Morty says there are people out there who just won't hear a word against him and those are the ones who frustrate me. Thanks for your response, I appreciate it!
hogesar
Well-Known Member
One thing I would say is Beau is completely right that some praise of Wes is OTT particularly on Twitter, but I think that is created from the relatively equal amount of people (not on this forum , from what I can see) who are incredibly over negative about Wes.
The reason people are like "THATS WHY YOU PLAY WES" only derives from so many people saying "THATS WHY YOU DONT PLAY WES" from the game before.
As Splutcho said, he's such a dividing player on fans opinion.
But from my view, watching football matches live or on the telly i'm always going to lean towards wanting to watch the more attack minded, exciting and influential players.
11 Gary O'Neils would bore the tits of me, unfortunately.
The reason people are like "THATS WHY YOU PLAY WES" only derives from so many people saying "THATS WHY YOU DONT PLAY WES" from the game before.
As Splutcho said, he's such a dividing player on fans opinion.
But from my view, watching football matches live or on the telly i'm always going to lean towards wanting to watch the more attack minded, exciting and influential players.
11 Gary O'Neils would bore the tits of me, unfortunately.
Beauseant
Well-Known Member
Actually Hoggy, that's a cracking point and I fully agree (although not about O'Neil who performs exactly the sort of muck and nettles role that allows managers to pick the likes of Wes 
). Wes does seem to get an excessive amount of stick, which is equally daft as the uncritical worship from some quarters.
). Wes does seem to get an excessive amount of stick, which is equally daft as the uncritical worship from some quarters.
Personal Trainer
New Member
Something to discuss with Michael Bailey and Darren Eadie at the Q and A at Carrow Road this evening, 8pm in the Norfolk Lounge, Barclay Stand.
It is free entry, there is a cash bar and there is not a lot on the television.
I bet there is discussion about a former manager and "would you have him back?"
It is free entry, there is a cash bar and there is not a lot on the television.
I bet there is discussion about a former manager and "would you have him back?"
morty
Moderator
Staff member
Hahaha, good plug
hogesar
Well-Known Member
oh Beau dont get me wrong, im a big O'Neil fan! And if he was fit id have brought him on v Charlton at 2-1!
Sit with the City fans who turn up
Free to join, free to read. Introduce yourself, pick a player thread, and get stuck into the next match thread.