Nelson

[morty]

Theres an open training session at Carrow road this morning, and it looks like Nelson is training with the 1st team. Anyone got any info? Was he always training with them, or is he somehow now "back in the fold"?

 

[Canaryboy]

Last I heard he was back in Portugal, no idea if that was a trial somewhere or gardening leave. Perhaps there is no interest so they've decided to try and patch things up instead?

Personally I wouldn't be against seeing how he plays alongside Rhodes or Pukki..... Rhodes tries to do little knock downs and flick on's doesn't he, could try Oliviera on the right or something or off the bench.

We're probably going to have to try and squeeze a few goals out of him to generate a bit of interest in January? Amazing how quickly his stock has fallen, similar situation to Ross McCormack at Villa.

 

[OldRobert]

Can't see the point of having a player on the books, costing no doubt, a fair bit, and us getting damn all out of him. Must surely be worth trying to get some sort of situation sorted out to our advantage.

 

[Din]

Pretty sure Farke said a few weeks back that Nelson was essentially on leave. Seeing as he hasn't got a move though he's obviously back now in training with us. No idea what to do with him to be honest. He has 2 years left on his deal and if we can't shift him this summer when he's off the back of the season where he played regularly and scored 8 goals I don't know what chances we have of doing it in January or next summer. That said though whilst undoubtedly a talented player some of his performances last season were disgraceful, and I have no desire to see that again.

Maybe give him an opportunity in the Wycombe game in a couple of weeks, if he looks up for it and does well then try and get him more involved, if not then keep him at arms length away from the first team and try and step up our efforts to move him on in January. If he can recapture the form we saw at the start of last season and the 2nd half of the season before that then he's undoubtedly an asset. Unfortunately though I think it's too far gone for him here.

 

[Canaryboy]

Perhaps our asking price was too high?

He went from being linked with £10m+ moves to having Norwich fans saying they'd sell him for £3m..... not inconceivable that Webber has overpriced him.

 

[Fenway Frank]

I would tell him now to prepare to be involved at Wycombe, even if it’s on the bench. Give him 30 minutes game time and take it from there depending on his attitude.

 

[Dubai Mark]

I know there is a cost issue, but I really don't want him to be part of our first team squad, he had more than enough minutes last year and didnt perform to the level where we all know he can in 80% of them........just not good enough

 

[Fenway Frank]

Is that a little rant Dubai ?

 

[GJP]

Thing about it is... we don't look any better without him and his "attitude". Arguably worse.

 

[Canaryboy]

Thing about it is... we don't look any better without him and his "attitude". Arguably worse.

I think both Rhodes and Pukki currently look more likely to score a goal in any given game than Oliviera did in the second half of last season personally, he was terrible.

But if we're paying him then its better than he's expected to turn up to work and make himself ready and available.

Would be helpful if he could go on a little scoring run before January so we can con somebody into taking over his contract.

 

[GJP]

Rhodes hasn't looked a threat at all in the last few games.

But I do think we're looking at a situation where most/any striker is going to struggle under Farke.

 

[hogesar]

But in Rhodes favour he has offered more as a player than Oliviera did last season.

 

[GJP]

Has he? I haven't see him do much lately.

I would say the main thing in Rhodes' favour is that he isn't Nelson.

 

[Canaryboy]

Perhaps you are just forgetting how terrible Oliviera was in the final 5/6 months of last season, 1 goal and 0 assists in 20 appearances in 2018. 63 shots though, mostly long range pot shots which he failed to get on the target. The only goal came against a club that his agent is involved in and he blatantly wanted to sign for....

There's a reason why there was reported interest in him last January but we haven't really heard of any this summer.

The truth is that Oliviera is 27 and he's never had a good season. He's had a good few months in a few different seasons. Harsh to level any blame at Farke for failing to turn Oliviera into a goal machine when he's hit double figures once in 9 seasons as a pro and even in that season most of his goals came in a 2.5 month period.

I'd be much more interested in seeing if Farke can get Rhodes scoring like he did at Blackburn. Our mistake was not selling Oliviera instead of Jerome last January when there was apparent interest and his stock was quite high. Now we're stuck with him and will end up loaning him out whilst paying half of his wages like we did Van Wolfswinkel.

Pretty much the only good thing about Nelson Oliviera when he burst onto the scene with his goalscoring run was his ability to fashion a goal out of nothing, exciting for a while but the novelty wears off when he's just shooting from every angle at every opportunity and skying most of them over the bar. Could say that we didn't create many chances for him but never really see any evidence that he's clinical with chances in and around the six yard box, that's what Rhodes is good at.

Perhaps Oliviera might be able to magic up something off the bench now and again until we can sell him.... I haven't really got any appetite to see him replace Rhodes or Pukki in the first XI at the minute though. In fact if Rhodes did start to struggle I think I'd want to see Pukki given a chance to lead the line before Oliviera.

Would Oliviera be happy being 3rd choice, given 15 minutes off the bench to try and impress? Or would be throw a massive tantrum then score a goal and run halfway down the pitch to shout at his manager about how he shouldn't be made to train as hard as everybody else because he's Portuguese so should be given a siesta every day and he must be a footballing legend because he has sat four rows in front of Cristiano Ronaldo on a bus a few times?

Plenty I can criticise Farke and Webber for, but Oliviera being an over rated knob cheese isn't one of them. Giving Glenn Middleton to Rangers is definitely one of them though.

 

[GJP]

Perhaps you are just forgetting how terrible Oliviera was in the final 5/6 months of last season, 1 goal and 0 assists in 20 appearances in 2018. 63 shots though, mostly long range pot shots which he failed to get on the target. The only goal came against a club that his agent is involved in and he blatantly wanted to sign for....

I've not forgotten it, I sat through enough of it. And rolled my eyes plenty of times when he hit one high and wide from 30 yards or whatever.

I also think it's worth remembering that the issue is him and the manager. Not him and actually playing for the club. But him and the manager don't see eye to to eye.

And actually, Nelson have have a bit of a point because Farke's way hasn't really worked. Transition or not, this is the worst Norwich side since we got relegated to League 1. And there's been no real signs in the early stages of this season that it is coming together.

If you look at Rhodes so far... should have had a hat-trick against WBA but only got the 1. He offered almost no threat in the last 3 games and his work rate was reasonable/acceptable but he didn't go above and beyond. Had Nelson turned in those performances I don't expect he'd have been cut much slack, infact he'd probably have got a lot more criticism.

Nelson can score all types of goals and he can score off both feet. He is a more talented than Rhodes and given the right ammunition he's more dangerous and more of a problem for defences to deal with. I can't help but think if Farke has got something about him then he should be getting a tune out of the guy. Rather than let the talent and £20k pw go to waste.

 

[hogesar]

To give you a rough idea of why I think Rhodes has offered more, he averages winning just over 5 aerial duels per game. Nelson regularly last season achieved less than 1, and averaged 1.1 over the season. Rhodes has also worked to hold onto the ball, something Nelson decided was beneath him. Or least thats my assumption as he was capable of it the season before. Nelson also averaged just over 3 shots. Rhodes is just under 2, so is clearly more disciplined.

Nelson may have more natural talent but his petulance has probably meant he will never have a premier league career. I mean, we couldnt get rid of him and although we had one buyer, shock horror he couldnt agree personal terms.

 

[GJP]

Lads, we just need to agree that I'm right and move on.

 

[Canaryboy]

I don't think Rhodes and Pukki have been our problem this season, its been our lightweight centre midfield.... don't really see what problem Oliviera solves. Quite enjoyed the little battle between Rhodes and Chambers in the derby too.

Would be nice if the Portugeezer could keep his head down and make himself available considering he's taking our money, but I'd much more concerned about whether Farke is going to find and settle on a decent midfield combination in the near future.

 

[morty]

I don't think Rhodes and Pukki have been our problem this season, its been our lightweight centre midfield.... don't really see what problem Oliviera solves. Quite enjoyed the little battle between Rhodes and Chambers in the derby too.

Would be nice if the Portugeezer could keep his head down and make himself available considering he's taking our money, but I'd much more concerned about whether Farke is going to find and settle on a decent midfield combination in the near future.

Mclean is the answer I feel, exactly the combative midfielder we are missing, with a goal threat too. Should be back soon, hopefully Saturday.