Norwich City Supporters Trust

[GazzaTCC]

Wow Gazza, sounds as if you're going in all guns blazing.

The first part of that paragraph which I've highlighted sounds highly irregular. The normal procedure to get elected to the board in most organisations is to be proposed, seconded, and then endorsed by the electorate on the floor at a meeting, but as you've only met three of the existing board members so far, one can only assume you've been co-opted by one of these three.

The second part of the paragraph which again I've highlighted suggests you have been charged with assessing existing board members with view to removing them if you feel their 'worth' is below the new standards set. I wonder if the existing board members are aware of these changes and what their reaction to them are.

I must say your comments along with Beauseant's comments on the opening page do make this sound like a coup or have I read it wrong?

Nothing as untoward or as dramatic as you suggest as I was co-opted to the Board at the last monthly meeting and will attend my first meeting at the end of the month.

 

[PUPnutty]

Gazza... Where did thje example of the PUPs cash being treated totally differently by the Club come from? Who put that thought in your head buddy? I obviously cared enough to sign on here and put the record straight but do I need to take the message to a wider audience? It is a worry. I've always made it quite plain on the pink un and on facebook that the club are always brilliant with us. I'd hate for someone from the club to read what you posted here.

 

[Personal Trainer]

Under the Rules of the Trust, which are drawn up by Cobbete Solicitors and based on Supporters Direct model rules, members on paying their first subscrition become a shareholder in the Trus and receive one share. Members can only hold one share in the Trust, renewals do not buy extra shares. All shareholders are entitled to attend the AGM but only those who renew their subscription are able to vote. These rules have to be cleared by the Financial Control Authority.

The Trust is looking at the facilities provided by PayPal, at present they inform us when subscriptions are not renewed and we try to contact the individual to ask why they are cancelling..SOs are more of a problem.

 

[GazzaTCC]

Gazza... Where did thje example of the PUPs cash being treated totally differently by the Club come from? Who put that thought in your head buddy? I obviously cared enough to sign on here and put the record straight but do I need to take the message to a wider audience? It is a worry. I've always made it quite plain on the pink un and on facebook that the club are always brilliant with us. I'd hate for someone from the club to read what you posted here.

Nutty, you know I have supported the PUP's thread from its near beginning. Indeed, it's the only thread I now contribute to on the Pink Un, because it's the only thread where differences are put aside and because of what it sets out to achieve. I'm also delighted to have my name listed among the sign off winners list.
Maybe it's more a question of the passage of time fading the memory for me between perception and reality?

However, the Rays Funds Discussion thread in 2013 certainly raised questions about continuing and the club's attitude towards fans' groups generally and the context of what we were trying to achieve?

Thankfully, the majority agreed to continue with monies going to CSF.

My comment was an opinion, it was never intended as a slight on your tremendous efforts in keeping it going.

Ricky Martin is a huge asset to the academy and that comes through when I've spoken to him previously on such matters. I have little doubt he is genuine in his enthusiasm for our efforts. I'm not sure the same can always be said throughout the whole club and that was my point really.

I hope they clears up any misunderstanding?

OTBC

 

[TILLY]

For CanaryBoy....When NCISA was wound up in May 2013 a meeting of the membership was called to discuss the distribution of cash at the bank. The question was posed to those present which from memory was about 35 people and the proposals from the floor were to give it to the Community Sports Foundation (CSF) and or NCST. No other organisations were proposed or seconded so democracy took its course.

The vote was for a 50/50 distribution so each received £1500. The shares held by NCISA were offered and sold to the highest bidder amongst its membership. That sum of £250 was included in £3000 split 50/50.

 

[PUPnutty]

Gazza, I know you have supported PUPs for a long time Gazza. You joined when Ray was still alive and proceeded to get a long run of winning naps because I can remember Ray saying what an asset you would be. And still are.

But if you read that thread from 2013 you will see how I steadfastly stuck to my mandates and how the club helped the transition to charity. I'm very protective of PUPs and our good relationship with the football club. My main contact has always been Ricky Martin. He really is a genuine and really takes an interest. He's done fantastically well with our Academy and the transition to grade one. He's really well thought of throughout the game as is obvious by the respect he has from coaches of the top clubs in the land. He is now Technical Director on merit but still made sure everything was sorted for our presentation and then took us for a cuppa and a chat afterwards.

There's no reason for anyone at the club not to support our group. We all love and support the club while raising money for their charity partners. We have no other politics. We don't ever get involved or have opinions about NCFC team/managers/board and we never will. We're just supporters and  supporters are appreciated by the club at all levels.

I think it was all a misunderstanding buddy. I just didn't want anyone to think the PUPs were anti-club in any shape or form.

 

[Personal Trainer]

Hi All

Thanks for all the comments, whether for us, against us or just plain disinterested.

There are a number of issues raised that may help us to be more efficient in the future especially regarding communications and handling membership issues. Like all committees we get set in our ways and fail to explore new opportunities. This is why all aspects of the Trust are under review.

The changes in the Club since the Trust formed in 2002 have been enormous and our attitudes have had to change in line with them, The changes have however led to real negotiations between the Trust and the Club being formalised rather than a "cosy chat" with no record and in many cases no action. 

In 2015, with political parties vying to be the friends of the football fan, it appears the role of Supporters Trusts will be part of the debate.

PS: Just a reminder that the Annual Reports provide the detail on the Trusts activities over the year and the previous offer is open.

 

[GazzaTCC]

Nutty, thank you for your reply. However, in relation to your response elsewhere, frankly, I think you're out of order.

Let's get a few things clear, you asked me a question in your original post on here. The origin of my views was largely that previous thread.

Although of little relevance, I didn't partake in that discussion orginally (although i agree 100% with the conclusion reached) because I was actually out of the country around that time.

I thought it only curtious to substantiate my views with reference to that discussion. As I didn't comment at the time, it took considerable effort on my part to find the thread.

Notwithstanding this, I actually chose John's reply to quote (and I could have chosen two or three others) because many of his comments therein actually reflected my views at the time.

Of greater significant, I merely repeated the question there (maybe perception and reality are two different things) that I raised earlier in this thread. It was, and still is, a genuine question.

Although my involvement with the Trust is relatively recent, I have never mentioned my involvement with it on that site. Nor, did I make reference to it in my question. It was you who raised it and have turned it into something it was never intended to be.

To suggest, as you have, that I was being mischievous, is, in itself, out of order.

Those are the facts and thoughts behind my thinking and my question. I will not respond on the Pink Un for reasons I have previously given.

I can understand why you are rightly defensive and rightly proud of PUP's. You won't find my questioning it's motives, continuance, or indeed anyone who participates and supports it. I too support it 100%.

Having said all that, I think we should "park it" there. I will be in the Crabtree tomorrow from around noon "warming up" to support our fantastic team and Club. More than happy to discuss this further there should you so wish?

OTBC

 

[Warren Hill]

Fight, Fight, Fight.....

 

[splutcho]

To be honest, given our recent record at Fulham, those two fighting will probably be the best entertainment our fans get!

 

[GazzaTCC]

Haha, not really. I have no problem with differences in opinion, it's one of the things that makes football the great game it is. However, I've already expressed my view on the matter above, let's just leave it there.

 

[PUPnutty]

This really is a strange old kettle of fish Gazza. The Pink Un was good enough for you to go on yesterday and ressurect a thread from 2013 in order to make a point that wasn't there. Yet today you're too good to to reply to my post on that same Pink Un thread you posted to me on yesterday. Smacks of elitism gone crazy and definitely another one for Glenn and "What a world we live in now eh....)

But you thinking I'm out of order and me thinking you're out of order can only end in a  personal argument taken beyond even being Monty Pythonesque by the ridiculousness of being conducted over two seperate message boards. So as far as that is concerned I agree we should park it here.

However, what I can't leave is the belief that "PUPs cash is now viewed totally differently by the club. It Isn't. That's fiction and there's no suggestion otherwi9se on that Pink Un thread. The fact is that our relationship with the club has improved year in year out as I've made plain in many Pink Un threads that you've also posted on. Here's the one from the first thread after the CSF was deided to be our charity. It was just a couple of weeks after the thread you bumped and a natural progression from the direction that thread sent me.

"We were made very welcome at Colney yesterday when we presented last year's funds to Ricky Martin. Ricky and I also talked about the funds moving forwards. Following my email Ricky and David mcNally discused the way forward and they are more than happy to help us donate our winning funds to the Community Sports Foundation whilst keeping the same level of involvement as they have now. Ricky will still be available for us if we need anything and he will arrange for the CSF to meet us at Colney when we do the presentations. I'm pleased with this. I took into account all your views over the summer where I though the two main objectives seemed to be to redirect the money somewhere it could make more of a difference while keeping the involvement with the football club that bonds our whole group. I am very grateful to the football club for helping us to a solution that seems to do just that."

So I will again ask you respectfully to keep PUPs out of fan's groups politics. We have manged to be that way for 8 years through all the football club's ups and downs over that time. As a group we just want to support the club, raise some money and have some fun along the way.

I don't get to away games so often these days so I won't be able to meet you in the Crabtree. But thanks for the offer and in return I'll give you a free sample from the Institute of Bog Cleaning Bingo Callers book of quotations....

NBAG.... Now that IS bang out of order!

 

[Beauseant]

Can't argue with that Splutcho but surely the Trust are to protect the interests of ALL Norwich fans in the event of a financial crisis at Carrow Road and that would include some foot stomping, name calling unpleasant individuals so not wishing to engage them over the internet ( if that is in fact the case ) begs the question what would happen at any meetings.

John, sorry I missed this, but I haven't had time to come on here all week so was in blissful ignorance that this threead had quietly expired.

The fact that the thread is on here and not the pink 'un has nothing whatsoever to do with the Trust, its because I refuse to post on the pink'un except for the PUPs thread to which I'm totally committed. In the last 12 months no less than 6 threads have been started solely to direct personal abuse at me. One such thread had the memorable and  brilliantly thought out opening post "Robin Sainty is a know it all *bleep*. Discuss"

You know me well enough to know I'm more than capable of fighting my corner but I see no point in trying to reason with anonymous scumbags who hide behind their computers and spout bile. This forum struck me as one where intelligent debate could actually take place without being sidetracked by old divisions.

 

[lappinitup]

Thanks for all the comments, whether for us, against us or just plain disinterested.

I must admit I never agreed with your previous stated aim which was to have a director/fan on the board because I doubted you had anybody who had the expertise to advise the owners/board members on how to run the club. I guess that put me in the 'against' camp. However, with the stated aim now changed to being 'a significant shareholder' I became more open minded about the organisation and curious as to what it can do to benefit our club.

To me, supporters organisations are there to do just that, support the club and assist in anyway possible through good times and bad. I remember vividly chucking my pocket money in the blankets during the fifties, with my dad and my uncle going without a pint because that money went in the blanket too. The old Norwich City Supporters Club run by Stan Springall raised money for for years all across Norfolk, collection tins in pubs and shops, a tote, raffles, dances, stalls, all culminating in an annual dinner and dance at the Norwood Rooms where a large cheque was always handed over to the club. I recall either all or most of the money to buy David Cross was raised by the supporters club.

So, when this thread was started, I read with interest and an open mind to see what direction the "revampedTrust" (to quote Beauseant in his opening post) was heading in now and what new policies it was persuing, how it would help our club an/or it's supporters.

He mentions four things in that post, the first of which is 'safe standing'. Firstly, this is a national campaign and has to be fought out at national level with the government and even if the campaign was ultimately successful, it would only affect a tiny minority of Norwich City fans. I really can't see how any of this would benefit our club given the costs to install it and the problems it may cause policing it. So no, that won't encourage me to sign up.

Secondly, he mentions 'cheaper away tickets'. It's a lovely idea but what does it mean? It would mean all clubs losing income and the likely event is that home ticket prices would increase to subsidise away fans. I can't see too many people being too happy paying more for their tickets to subsidise Man U, Chelsea or worse still, scum fans. And again, this idea only affects a minority of fans and does nothing for Norwich City Football Club so once again, I'm not convinced.

The third point Beauseant makes is "our main reason for existing is to purchase shares in the club to give fans a greater voice" and this one I'm really struggling with. This thread has shown the Trust isn't prepared to reach out to ALL fans by it's refusal to debate it's position on other sites. There was a well written piece on the PinkUn asking "What do the Supporters Trust do?", and yet nobody from the Trust was prepared to answer it for fear of "being trolled". Surely to claim to speak for all supporters you have to engage them all? Just like politicians, it's all very nice at the annual conference where everybody agrees with you, but it's not so easy facing voters on the street and hecklers at open meetings. It has to be done though if you are to succeed in swaying them over to your cause. I'm sorry but to me this "greater voice" is coming across as a tiny squeak.

Finally Beauseant states "if, heaven forbid, the club got back to where it was in 2009 the Trust would act as a focal point for any rescue attempts". I think he would agree with me that during previous crises at the club, the Trust has been conspicuous by it's silence and subsequently, doesn't inspire confidence in it's ability to act decisively in any future turmoil the club may face. Maybe the changes they are promising us will change that perception and convince people like me to join them.

In the meantime, I will remain 'interested', neither 'for you' or 'against you', just waiting to be convinced.