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Norwich City vs Leeds (Home) Saturday 25th August.

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hogesar

hogesar

Well-Known Member
Well
Fine margins though, we were excellent in the first 20 minutes, if theat dominance had actually been converted to a goal, who knows how the shape of the game would have changed.

But yeah, basically outplayed by a better team.

Well, at 2-0 down after 30 minutes we never looked like scoring. Im reality we were so far from Leeds it was a bit shocking. Some of my leeds supporting friends couldnt believe how poor we were.
 
G

GJP

Well-Known Member
9 points from the last 30 available. 20 goals conceded in the last 10 games league games.

And DF has now had about 50-60 competitive games.
 
G

GJP

Well-Known Member
Well


Well, at 2-0 down after 30 minutes we never looked like scoring. Im reality we were so far from Leeds it was a bit shocking. Some of my leeds supporting friends couldnt believe how poor we were.

Exactly.

However, despite what you say about not looking like not scoring (which is right),as I mentioned earlier, Leeds were leaving spaces. But DF doesn't appear to have it in his locker to spot or act on those things.

Just as he doesn't appear to have it in his locker to sort out that f*cking defence.
 
morty

morty

Moderator
Staff member
Well


Well, at 2-0 down after 30 minutes we never looked like scoring. Im reality we were so far from Leeds it was a bit shocking. Some of my leeds supporting friends couldnt believe how poor we were.
You are mates with Leeds fans?

Ewww.
 
G

GJP

Well-Known Member
A bad derby result could be the end for him next week unfortunately. The natives are restless.

Should that be the case I don't think there can be any argument.

I just don't think there is enough real good signs of progress.

The defence is the big thing for me. We let in 5 goals on the last game of last season and followed that up by conceding 6 in our first two games of this season. 11 goals in 3 games.

And that's before you start looking at the ponderous midfield, the vulnerability to counter attacks and Rhodes being absolutely no threat to PNE or Leeds.

Very, very hard to see this getting turned around.
 
Fenway Frank

Fenway Frank

Well-Known Member
GJP, I can understand why you’re worried but what do you think will happen if we get rid of him ?
 
morty

morty

Moderator
Staff member
Should that be the case I don't think there can be any argument.

I just don't think there is enough real good signs of progress.

The defence is the big thing for me. We let in 5 goals on the last game of last season and followed that up by conceding 6 in our first two games of this season. 11 goals in 3 games.

And that's before you start looking at the ponderous midfield, the vulnerability to counter attacks and Rhodes being absolutely no threat to PNE or Leeds.

Very, very hard to see this getting turned around.
I don't entirely agree.

The fact is that we have very few players you would be describing as a sure thing or the finished article. In having to cut our costs we have had to take risks on just about everyone we buy. Players who have been injured, players who have been out of form ( Rhodes, Krull) players untested at this level. So we really have to wring 110% out of a lot of them on a very regular basis. I am not entirely convinced a change of manager would get much more out of what we have frankly, unless you go down the route of "Well he cuddnt do no worse buh, could he?".

Objectively, the Leeds game is the first time we have played badly / not got a result, this season. And I think that 5 games in is too soon to be pulling the trigger. I would assume Webber has his finger on the pulse as to the reasons that underpin whats happening., he has a coaching licence so he will know if Farke is getting the best out of the players or not. Two things that stand out for me are Pinto was an absolute liability yesterday, and the finger could be pointed at him for at least two of the goals, and we really missed a midfielder like Mclean, who has a bit of grit and drive, and also experience of what is needed to win a football game in a British league.

So, for me, I don't think we have any choice other than to be a bit patient. With huge changes to the squad over the summer, I don't think there is any value in whisking up stats that include last season either, for me the slate was wiped clean at the beginning of the season, and all said and done, 3 points against the scum could, theoretically, see us around the top ten.
 
Fenway Frank

Fenway Frank

Well-Known Member
At least we’ve got Cardiff on Tuesday to try something else :)
 
hogesar

hogesar

Well-Known Member
The problem is, and Huckerby covered it well in his post analysis, is using the excuse of what players weve signed is kind of ignoring that we should surely only be signing players we think are good enough? And to be fair..

Hanley and Klose are good CBs.

Tettey is a proven DM at this level. Marshall is a proven wide player at this level. Between Vrancic, Trybull, Leitner and Mclean we have options.

Pukki has scored 3, he is likely a good enough player at this level. Rhodes is proven.

I think using the squad as an excuse for Farke and / or Webber is not acceptable, theyve had enough time to shape the squad.

The main issue I take is for the first 20 minutes we executed Farkes ideals as best as we ever have and likely will. And didnt get a shot on target.

I actually quite rate Farke as a coach but if you consistently prove you cant get a defence to defend, a midfield to defend and support / score and a forward line to score then what do you have? There are some basic managers in this league that are likely far less intelligent than Farke however they understand limitations. As a back 4 or back 5 we should be able to defend basic tactical situations yet we cant.

Leeds pushed their fullbacks way too high at times and at others had 2 central midfielders up the pitch yet we couldnt exploit that. The one thing I thought Farke may be able to do is see those spaces to exploit but he couldnt. As an away team I think Leeds will have found it far easier than they thought they might.
 
Din

Din

Well-Known Member
I probably wouldn't sack him even if we lost the derby, and I don't think the board would either. But in all honesty, losing that game given where the scum are and where we supposedly should be (seeing as Farke's now had 50 games, 2 pre-seasons, 3 transfer windows and practically the whole squad is his and Webber's),would be completely and utterly embarrassing. It will be a long way back for Farke from there with the vast majority of the fans. We simply cannot lose that game. Same applies to Webber.

I think in some areas we have actually improved. Going forwards this season we look as if we have much more of a plan and are capable of scoring more goals. The Leeds game was the only one this season where we didn't look at any point like we could and should have won, which we did look like in the first 4. Defensively though we're far too soft, and we're not really playing the good attacking football that Farke said he wanted to implement when he first came. Most importantly though obviously we're just not getting results.

After the scum game there's an international break. Last season in the first 4/5 games we were pretty shocking, and then following the first international break we went on that sensational run where we climbed from the bottom 3 up into the top 6 in about 10 games. Hopefully Farke having 2 full weeks without a game can have a similar effect to what it had last time. Following that break we have Middlesbrough which is a tough game, but then after that we have Wigan, QPR and Reading, which will take us to 10 games in. We simply have to pick up a lot of points from those 3 games, realistically 7 or more. If there's still no signs of improvement and we haven't picked up a decent amount of points from those games, then I hate to say it but I think Farke will simply have to go.
 
morty

morty

Moderator
Staff member
The problem is, and Huckerby covered it well in his post analysis, is using the excuse of what players weve signed is kind of ignoring that we should surely only be signing players we think are good enough? And to be fair..

Hanley and Klose are good CBs.

Tettey is a proven DM at this level. Marshall is a proven wide player at this level. Between Vrancic, Trybull, Leitner and Mclean we have options.

Pukki has scored 3, he is likely a good enough player at this level. Rhodes is proven.

I think using the squad as an excuse for Farke and / or Webber is not acceptable, theyve had enough time to shape the squad.

The main issue I take is for the first 20 minutes we executed Farkes ideals as best as we ever have and likely will. And didnt get a shot on target.

I actually quite rate Farke as a coach but if you consistently prove you cant get a defence to defend, a midfield to defend and support / score and a forward line to score then what do you have? There are some basic managers in this league that are likely far less intelligent than Farke however they understand limitations. As a back 4 or back 5 we should be able to defend basic tactical situations yet we cant.

Leeds pushed their fullbacks way too high at times and at others had 2 central midfielders up the pitch yet we couldnt exploit that. The one thing I thought Farke may be able to do is see those spaces to exploit but he couldnt. As an away team I think Leeds will have found it far easier than they thought they might.
So you're saying on the one hand that we have good defenders, then on the other they can't defend?

We sign players that we can afford, then rely on a bit of luck that they work out....
 
hogesar

hogesar

Well-Known Member
We have good defenders, but our coach cant get us to defend.
 
morty

morty

Moderator
Staff member
We have good defenders, but our coach cant get us to defend.
Hmmmm, I would be interested if you expanded a little on this, I am interested where it is going.

What part of Farke's coaching made Pinto so woeful, and be culpable for two of the goals? It would have been suicide to sit back against them, and there would have been booing from minute one had we done so, so what would have been your solution?

I refuse to believe that defenders can have basic defending skill coached out of them, and once they step over the white line, then individual decisions are down to players.
 
N

Number 9

Well-Known Member
Morty -
he has a coaching licence so he will know if Farke is getting the best out of the players or not.

I don't have a coaching licence, I have an opinion on the past 50 games and Herr Farke
 
morty

morty

Moderator
Staff member
Morty -
he has a coaching licence so he will know if Farke is getting the best out of the players or not.

I don't have a coaching licence, I have an opinion on the past 50 games and Herr Farke
Well, thats why we're all here, isn't it?

He will, perhaps, have a slightly more informed one then.
 
hogesar

hogesar

Well-Known Member
Hmmmm, I would be interested if you expanded a little on this, I am interested where it is going.

What part of Farke's coaching made Pinto so woeful, and be culpable for two of the goals? It would have been suicide to sit back against them, and there would have been booing from minute one had we done so, so what would have been your solution?

I refuse to believe that defenders can have basic defending skill coached out of them, and once they step over the white line, then individual decisions are down to players.

Thing is theres basic defending and theres tactical errors and ways of setting us up that makes it too easy for other teams.

As for Pinto - well Farke is persisting with starting him, and seemingly positive on the sidelines when Pinto completely unbalances the side by making a run from deep into a dead end. Against a team like Leeds that, already can, with a manager that has only had very limited time, beat us at our own game, counter much quicker than us and exploit the gaps left by players like pinto.
 
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