Indy_Bones
New Member
Always easy to say these things when it's not YOUR money that's being spent.
We negotiate hard and get criticised for taking too long, we get a deal done quick and get criticised for paying over the odds in order to seal a deal...
Anyone who thinks that McCormack is worth 13mil or more is having a complete giraffe IMHO - regardless of whether or not he could potentially help gain promotion. There are numerous targets out there who could just as easily boost our promotion push, and almost none of them are touching 30, don't fit the system AN has used since he came here and have little to no re-sale value either...
Let's say we DID spend 13mil on McCormack but Jerome gets a long-term injury early doors, we're going to be in a situation whereby we simply don't have another player like Jerome to come in and cover and then what?
Naismith is basically the same type of player as McCormack, is already ours, and cost less despite being proven at the top level (which McCormack isn't). We also have Wes who ideally fits where McCormack normally plays, and he's probably still our most influential player when on-form and fully fit, and then there's Maddison who absolutely looks a class act in the making. So we have at least THREE players who fully suit playing off a lone front man in a no10 role, so why the f**k would be spend 13mil on yet another - especially when there's NOTHING wrong with the players we already have there?!?
We negotiate hard and get criticised for taking too long, we get a deal done quick and get criticised for paying over the odds in order to seal a deal...
Anyone who thinks that McCormack is worth 13mil or more is having a complete giraffe IMHO - regardless of whether or not he could potentially help gain promotion. There are numerous targets out there who could just as easily boost our promotion push, and almost none of them are touching 30, don't fit the system AN has used since he came here and have little to no re-sale value either...
Let's say we DID spend 13mil on McCormack but Jerome gets a long-term injury early doors, we're going to be in a situation whereby we simply don't have another player like Jerome to come in and cover and then what?
Naismith is basically the same type of player as McCormack, is already ours, and cost less despite being proven at the top level (which McCormack isn't). We also have Wes who ideally fits where McCormack normally plays, and he's probably still our most influential player when on-form and fully fit, and then there's Maddison who absolutely looks a class act in the making. So we have at least THREE players who fully suit playing off a lone front man in a no10 role, so why the f**k would be spend 13mil on yet another - especially when there's NOTHING wrong with the players we already have there?!?
Canaryboy
Well-Known Member
I hope 'other targets' translates into Jonathan Kodjia from Bristol City, he's a beast.
Canaryboy
Well-Known Member
Nah, McCormack is surely one of the very best finishers in this league, if not the best.
But I really like the look of Kodjia who has both pace and power and so looks like he could potentially make it in the league above.
eatonparkboy
New Member
Last season when I queried the money go round in football and particularly at this club it was pointed out by more than one that football has inflated and these are the going rates.
So why have the club bid £10M for him then? AN obviously thinks he suits the system(s) he will use next year and thinks he will get the goals. And I doubt he is the one saying only bid low for him. His comments on the club home page suggest to me he wants the lad in quick. And further comments suggest he will go elsewhere if the selling clubs prevaricate. And with the money we will receive for Redmond (13 goals in 122 apps), we won't be breaking the bank if we offered £13M.
And who are these numerous targets with a proven record in the Championship?
This fixation with age amazes me. Holt was 28 when he joined us, had had an fruitless time in his spell in the Championship and yet became a club legend and scored plenty in the Prem.
splutcho
Moderator
It amazes ME how many can't see the importance of age. £13 million on a player that's 24 (for example) could very well turn out to be more of a loan of funds when we sell them for the same or more later. This £13 million is gone as soon as he signs the contract.
eatonparkboy
New Member
Why would we want to sell anyone later? Are we really only buying players because of their worth not ability? Higuain, 28 hasn't been bought because of his worth financially. Ibrahimovic isn't getting £10M a year in wages as an investment.
If we do get McCormack and he does well and we get promoted he will be entitled to his chance in the Prem, just like Holt who proved his worth and saved us money by not having to go out and spend money on someone else.
splutcho
Moderator
Because that's the reality for clubs of our size. We buy players and sell them for profit. If we do that, we've done well. Who Man United and Juventus can afford to splash out on really has no significance to this conversation.
eatonparkboy
New Member
When it doesn't suit your argument you mean. The reality is we are trying to gain promotion next season not groom anyone to sell on.
Din
Well-Known Member
To be honest with the market the way it currently is to get a proven goalscorer at this level you're going to be paying around £7-8m at the very minimum. Kodjia was mentioned earlier in the thread I would love him here but Bristol City rejected a bid from Villa for him saying they wanted £10-12m. Jordan Rhodes cost Boro £11m, McCormack cost Fulham £11m when they first bought him, Newcastle have just signed Gayle for £10m, Bournemouth signed Afobe in January for £10m. The only exception to the rule seems to be Gary Hooper.
Fact is if we want to sign someone who can score goals at this level, then we're going to have to fork out money. McCormack is as close to a guaranteed goalscorer as you get at this level. 67 goals in the last 3 seasons, at that's playing in teams that have done pretty poorly. Imagine the numbers he could get in a team where he has the likes of Naismith, Hoolahan, Canos, Brady, Olsson, Jarvis, Howson and Jerome supplying him. The way I see it as well, it really doesn't matter about his age. If his goals can fire us to promotion this season then his fee would've been justified, plus he's not a player that particularly relies on pace or strength, so even after this season he could still be a very good goalscorer for 3-4 more seasons.
Fact is if we want to sign someone who can score goals at this level, then we're going to have to fork out money. McCormack is as close to a guaranteed goalscorer as you get at this level. 67 goals in the last 3 seasons, at that's playing in teams that have done pretty poorly. Imagine the numbers he could get in a team where he has the likes of Naismith, Hoolahan, Canos, Brady, Olsson, Jarvis, Howson and Jerome supplying him. The way I see it as well, it really doesn't matter about his age. If his goals can fire us to promotion this season then his fee would've been justified, plus he's not a player that particularly relies on pace or strength, so even after this season he could still be a very good goalscorer for 3-4 more seasons.
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Indy_Bones
New Member
Oh right,
So we can change the way we play to accomodate McCormack, but couldn't/wouldn't do the same for Hooper or RvW, and we're also apparently willing to pay through the nose for the privilege as well...gotta love football logic!
So we can change the way we play to accomodate McCormack, but couldn't/wouldn't do the same for Hooper or RvW, and we're also apparently willing to pay through the nose for the privilege as well...gotta love football logic!
Canaryboy
Well-Known Member
I don't think we would have to massively change the way we play to accommodate McCormack, he can work the channels and press high up the pitch already, can't see why he can't just slot in and do what Jerome does.
I didn't want us to sell Hooper, but no amount of changing the way we play would stop Van Wolfswinkel being blown over by a sudden gust of wind.
I didn't want us to sell Hooper, but no amount of changing the way we play would stop Van Wolfswinkel being blown over by a sudden gust of wind.
Indy_Bones
New Member
That's NOT what I posted EPB.
I clearly stated "There are numerous targets out there who could just as easily boost our promotion push", which could mean a player who's performed at Champs level (think Wells, Assombalonga etc), players currently plying their trade abroad, players who are fringe players at a prem club and would be willing to move for regular football and so on.
Only just over a season ago we saw Dzeko sold to Roma for 14mil, he's an absolute country mile better than McCormack, with proven goalscoring at the top level in THREE of Europe's best leagues and yet somehow McCormack is supposedly carrying a very similar valuation because he's done well in the champs for the past couple of years - just wtf???
As per usual when it comes to 'domestic' nation players, the price is way above what it would be for a player of the same or better ability from abroad, and whilst the likes of Man Utd, Chelsea and similar can afford to pay that premium, generally speaking we can't, and thus paying through the nose for McCormack is sheer madness IMHO.
KeiranShikari
New Member
If Dzeko and McC's wage demands were in the same ball park do you think the fees would be similar?
Madness is trying the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So things like playing Ricky and expecting goals are madness.
IMHO.
Madness is trying the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So things like playing Ricky and expecting goals are madness.
IMHO.
eatonparkboy
New Member
But Wells and Assombalonga are not the club's first choice. McCormack is. And tyhey have bid £10M. Where is the argument?
Din
Well-Known Member
Any player that comes in from abroad though is a risk. Yes prices abroad are generally cheaper, and there's every chance that we could find someone for a cheap fee that is a huge hit in this division (for example what Bristol City did with Kodjia), but there's just as much chance, if not more, that we bring someone in for a lower fee and he isn't a success. We need somebody who is going to essentially guarantee us goals at this level, which McCormack does.
Of course there are other players who fit that bill in this country. You mention Assombalonga and Wells, who I either of which I think would be good signings. However neither of them are going to cost us much less, if anything less than McCormack. For both of them you're looking at £10m plus. And whilst they're both younger than McCormack, neither of them are quite as good. If we're going to spend that amount of money we may as well get the most proven goalscorer in this division we can get, which McCormack is.
I also can't think of many fringe players at Premier League clubs who you would bet would be a success in this league. Dwight Gayle was perhaps the most obvious of them but he's already gone to Newcastle. Leo Ulloa at Leicester maybe? Though Leicester have said he won't be sold for less than £10m, plus he's already 30 and was hardly prolific in this division previously. Peter Crouch, Jonathan Walters, Rickie Lambert would all be quite cheap however all of them are well past their best now and would all be a risk, especially seeing as none of them have played at this level for years. Genuinely can't think of anyone that leaves apart from maybe Patrick Bamford, who admittedly might be a decent signing at this level however would only be on loan.
ZLF
Well-Known Member
It will happen and he has a completely proven record at champs level.
What he is not is a wide player or a lone striker; he works best just off a target man / partner
The question is now how we integrate him into the first XI while providing a balance of defensive security and getting the best from all of our attacking options.
What he is not is a wide player or a lone striker; he works best just off a target man / partner
The question is now how we integrate him into the first XI while providing a balance of defensive security and getting the best from all of our attacking options.
R
RhythmicTheory
New Member
I think this transfer is a bad idea (age, cost and where he fits into our team), but ill wait to see how it pans out.
Just dont have enormous confidence in the decisions making behind the scenes in this area, given our last couple of seasons.
Also, if we are willing to paying 12 mil for Mc Cormack, wtf didnt we buy Afobe for the same money in Jan. This assumes the media reports on both situations were correct, which is just as likely not!
its Dean Ashton all over again. I would love to know how much input the manager has, because the pattern repeating would suggest not much.
Just dont have enormous confidence in the decisions making behind the scenes in this area, given our last couple of seasons.
Also, if we are willing to paying 12 mil for Mc Cormack, wtf didnt we buy Afobe for the same money in Jan. This assumes the media reports on both situations were correct, which is just as likely not!
its Dean Ashton all over again. I would love to know how much input the manager has, because the pattern repeating would suggest not much.
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Canaryboy
Well-Known Member
I have the same reservations about age, its a lot to spend on somebody who is unlikely to leave with a transfer fee (same as Naismith), but we so desperately need a proven goalscorer that I'm willing to forget that completely the moment that he starts banging the goals in.
I think we should sign a second striker though, Villa are trying to offload Rudy Gestede and I wonder whether that could be their Gary Hooper moment, we're all looking at the striker market and wondering why the hell we let Hooper leave for £3m.... when he'd probably cost £8m to £10m to buy.
Gestede was a 1 in 2 man for Blackburn, wonder how cheap they are going to let him go, could be a bit of a masterstroke to give them a few million for him. He's 6ft 4", you'd guess that with our growing collection of diminutive Celts we could do with somebody like him giving us a different option.
I think we should sign a second striker though, Villa are trying to offload Rudy Gestede and I wonder whether that could be their Gary Hooper moment, we're all looking at the striker market and wondering why the hell we let Hooper leave for £3m.... when he'd probably cost £8m to £10m to buy.
Gestede was a 1 in 2 man for Blackburn, wonder how cheap they are going to let him go, could be a bit of a masterstroke to give them a few million for him. He's 6ft 4", you'd guess that with our growing collection of diminutive Celts we could do with somebody like him giving us a different option.
G
GJP
Well-Known Member
Indeed. Though I gather Afobe would always have picked Bournemouth over us - unless we were paying him a lot more, of course.
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