Protest

[morty]

Is this seriously happening tomorrow?

 

[ZLF]

I cant believe it either and am watching aghast at the immature expectations of a small section of our fans.

I look back at what I have actively protested against in the past . Performances are frustrating, as is a lack of a striker,  but to keep things in proportion I simply cant recall a side with so many international players or a squad relatively worth so much.  Especially in tier two.

Huge improvements are needed - but an anti club protest?  I guess the booing against Sheff Weds was an indicator of just how out of touch I have become with real supporter mindsets.  

 

[morty]

There was booing?

Yeah I agree that its a frustrating time, but people seem to have very short memories.

 

[eatonparkboy]

The board does have a celebrity look rather than a football one I suppose. But it isn't Vincent Tan or Carson Yeung. I do think there is always room for protest and don't see any harm in booing. What else can you do if you are unhappy? It is the most recognised and probably civilised way of saying "that wasn't worth the entrance fee" much in the same way as it is OK to boo the opposition or the ref.

I don't think we ought to hang on to history too much. It is for visiting not living in but we do have to recognise the contribution the WynnJones have made to the club, our club, the booers club.

And do we really know if it was the board or the managerial team that didn't inspire during the window? Did the board influence AN into considering a 19 year old reserve striker? I doubt it. And to be fair to them, they haven't said a word against AN. Moxey did follow the usual prepared speech for his first public outing but that was not unexpected.

But I remember a similar thing in August/September 1971 when a group of supporters wanted us to boycott the matches to protest at the standard of football etc. It flopped and we went on to win the league!

 

[morty]

Booing your own players makes no sense whatsoever, and just shows how self entitled some of our fans have become.

 

[Canaryboy]

The thing which has really got me irked is the way that we can spend £8m twice on two attacking midfielders, leaving us with three players in the same position, but can find just £4m for a striker and we leave ourselves with two of those.

But I wouldn't know who to protest against even if I wanted to (and wouldn't, because I've got better things to do, and don't give enough of my money to the club to justify stomping my feet like a petulant child). I'd just like to see whether this Nelson Oliviera is a class act or not, perhaps we've just paid £4m for a £10m striker.

Any link to details about this protest? 

 

[ZLF]

perhaps the fans unrest is mirroring the players discomfort with the managers approach;

I hear rumours of increasing disatisfaction;   although as I my comments in the cardiff game thread suggest I am with the manager about the players inability to do the basics of their job properly;   i accept the manager has a part to play in this too but the inconsistent performances from the most senior players and leaders in the club pre-dates Alex Neils involvement and suggests a strong underlying flaw.

Keep up with losing one game in 5,  convert some chances to make draws wins and the whole atmosphere may improve;    carry on playing as we have the last couple of games and the black morass will widen and deepen quickly

 

[Canaryboy]

Have to factor in the transfer deadline to our results so far though, nothing Alex Neil can do about the fact that there were probably several players in our squad who had one eye on the exit and that now its locked shut they need to accept their fate and get their heads down. Timm Klose, Robbie Brady, Steven Naismith and Martin Olsson are four that spring to mind.

 

[Canaryboy]

So do we think that there may be a lack of harmony in the dressing room? 

Its a bit of a chicken and an egg scenario isn't it, the only times I can remember Norwich have an amazing team spirit is under Lambert and under Worthington (before relegation). But were our good performances under those regimes the result of good morale in the dressing room, or did the good morale in the dressing room come as a result of success on the pitch? 

Its an odd one because under those managers I can't remember squad players / fringe players getting upset, but each manager we have no seems to create an obvious outcast or two. Becchio under Hughton, Bassong under Adams, Lafferty under Alex Neil. 

But only one of those managers actually signed their own number 1 problem child, and it wasn't Alex Neil. 

 

[morty]

Have to factor in the transfer deadline to our results so far though, nothing Alex Neil can do about the fact that there were probably several players in our squad who had one eye on the exit and that now its locked shut they need to accept their fate and get their heads down. Timm Klose, Robbie Brady, Steven Naismith and Martin Olsson are four that spring to mind.

I think the transfer window has definitely been a factor. I also think the club should be given credit for managing to hang on to those players you mention above.

I definitely didn't think Brady would still be here.

 

[GazzaTCC]

Canaryboy - while I have little doubt that the likes of Klose, Brady and Olsson probably received tentative interest from other clubs during the window, I'm more concerned at the seeming inability to "churn" fringe players - such as Lafferty, Turner and Bassong. Maybe this has more to do with the wages being paid, rather than their genuine desire for regular first team football?

 

[morty]

Canaryboy - while I have little doubt that the likes of Klose, Brady and Olsson probably received tentative interest from other clubs during the window, I'm more concerned at the seeming inability to "churn" fringe players - such as Lafferty, Turner and Bassong. Maybe this has more to do with the wages being paid, rather than their genuine desire for regular first team football?

Are you implying that we are paying them too much? Lol, thats something I have never heard levelled at our club!

 

[Canaryboy]

Canaryboy - while I have little doubt that the likes of Klose, Brady and Olsson probably received tentative interest from other clubs during the window, I'm more concerned at the seeming inability to "churn" fringe players - such as Lafferty, Turner and Bassong. Maybe this has more to do with the wages being paid, rather than their genuine desire for regular first team football?

I suspect it has everything to do with wages. We aren't learning our lesson though are we. 

We've given 3.5 year contracts to Matt Jarvis and Steven Naismith, both tying them down until they are 33. 

Sunderland fans on their forum were discussing their club not being able to agree terms with Naismith, and initially they were calling him greedy for asking for too much in wages (so were Norwich fans), then they twigged that he'd be wanting them to match a 3 year deal despite him being 30 next week. Kevin Nolan was literally on the scrap heap at 32 after playing almost his whole career in the Premier League, to put the risks into perspective. 

That's how you get stuck with players, see: Michael Turner, 33 next week. Given a 3 year contract just before he turned 31 

Becchio given a three and a half year contract, which should have expired this summer! Paid him off a year early. 

I don't blame the players in any of these scenarios, you get to a certain age with your career coming to an end and you are going to be thinking about how you are going to pay public school fees and keep your high maintenance wife in Louis Vuitton post-football. 

If you were Michael Turner why would you voluntarily give up half of your salary or more to go and play for Rotherham for a year (just a random example, based on his likely standard now), what is he going to achieve there, that's a player who has played 158 Premier League games and was talked about as a future England player for a period. 

Who could blame him for keeping that salary and being inactive for a year, knowing that he'll never be anywhere near this money again. The difference between what he'd get at Rotherham and what he'd get in League 1 is probably minuscule, but the difference between what he'd get on his current deal and what he'd get at Rotherham is probably massive. 

 

[Canaryboy]

An example which illustrates the above.

It has been revealed that Anichebe was on £32k a week at West Brom.

If Anichebe had been relegated while at West Brom, and we assume that they have a 40% wage reduction clause like we apparently do, that would have dropped Anichebe's wages to £19,200 a week (when he was under contract).

Nottingham Forest, a decent sized club but one without parachute payments, have allegedly given Bendtner a £13k a week contract. That's quite a big disparity in wages between West Brom in a hypothetical parachute payments scenario and Nottingham Forest. Especially when Bendtner arguably comes with a higher pedigree having shown fleeting periods of genuine quality and his success as an international.

Now I wonder what Lafferty is earning? Wouldn't surprise me at all if he is at least matching Bendtner's wages! 

 

[ZLF]

I suspect there are differing drivers for Bassong / Turner with, performance age and high wage being against us (both signed as prem players with ill rumours stating bassongs contract had a match top wage earner clause).  Turner in particular I do wonder if we tried hard enough to agree terms to terminate his contract early given his residual contract was always going to prohibit a move. It is rare to find any person let alone player willing to take a pay cut (Tal Ben Haim at Portsmouth remains the benchmark example).     

The lafferty issue is different with other clubs interested and him wanting to go but our inability to sign a third striking option meaning it was completely right that we wouldnt release him.     

 

[eatonparkboy]

And are supporters blaming all this on the board? Surely the much lauded McNally and the managers had more to do with players contracts. Other posts seem to imply that the board basically just rubber stamps the executive committees decisions.

To be honest, I think our owners reflect the bulk of supporters at the club rather than the other way round. The same drive to win and achieve success at any price doesn't exist in the Norfolk psyche. That is why AN kept his job at the end of the season. At many other clubs he would not have been given more money to waste. Yes they want to win and see some success but I think that is balanced against the need to see good attractive football and the realisation of the pecking order in football.

But the mass coverage of football in the media and the opinions of pundits that you get nothing for second has probably convinced a few that we ought to be in the same league as the foreign owned. And yes, the board do appear naive at times and certainly not experts at judgement during the transfer window.

 

[Canaryboy]

Alex Neil has just confirmed that the club has no money (from club facebook page) 

So that settles it. 

Presumably if Naismith had agreed to join Sunderland we'd also have let Lafferty go and been able to bring in another striker on deadline day. 

 

[Canaryboy]

How much money has Alex Neil actually wasted though eatonparkboy.

If anything he has been hindered by money wasted by Neil Adams and Chris Hughton, and players stuck on the payroll from their tenures. He didn't hand Michael Turner his contract for example, and Van Wolfswinkel and Kyle Laffferty were not his signings. Neither was Becchio who he released. Neither was Vadis. 

I suppose the jury is still out on Matt Jarvis, Youssef Mulumbu, and we certainly overpaid for Steven Naismith. But Klose, Brady and Pinto are clearly good players, and we've not even seen Pritchard and Oliviera kick a ball yet.

 

[morty]

Alex Neil has just confirmed that the club has no money (from club facebook page) 

So that settles it. 

Presumably if Naismith had agreed to join Sunderland we'd also have let Lafferty go and been able to bring in another striker on deadline day. 

I have it on good authority that we bid 9 million for McCormack. I wonder where they were getting that money then?

*Edit* Though just been reminded how much we paid for Pritchard!

 

[Canaryboy]

I have it on good authority that we bid 9 million for McCormack. I wonder where they were getting that money then?

*Edit* Though just been reminded how much we paid for Pritchard!

I'm fairly convinced that we expected somebody to leave before the deadline closed and that whoever we intended to sign as a striker was contingent on that deal going through, probably Naismith or Brady?

Alex Neil said he wanted another striker, now saying that the club had no leftover money, Naismith rejected Sunderland. 2 + 2 = 4?