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CanaryNath
New Member
I can see it now:
Alex Neil: Dimitar, I need a striker that is full of energy
Berbatrov: not really my game. I like to drift in and out
ALex Neil: Ah, f^ck off then.
Alex Neil: Dimitar, I need a striker that is full of energy
Berbatrov: not really my game. I like to drift in and out
ALex Neil: Ah, f^ck off then.
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SussexYellow
Active Member
My favourite quote about retirement is - that it is a bit like being Dimitar Berbatov, you don't have to do any work but you still get paid.
eatonparkboy
New Member
There is a difference though between competing and winning. I'm sure a straw poll would have selected both men in the starting 11. I'm sure both players would have wanted to start. It isn't a question of 11 players, it is what or who is the best 11.
If the manager fancies Grabban more than Jerome that is his job but Redmond played competitive football through the some of the summer and should be match fit.
Or are we going down the route that if you want players to be at their best they need more rest than playing time. Many players, not prima donnas, would argue they stay sharper the more they play.
morty
Moderator
Staff member
Did you even read what I typed lol?
If Alex Neil thought Redmond needed a rest, and that Jerome missed enough pre season that he isn't at his sharpest, then thats enough for me, based on what he has seen in training.
No one said Redmond wasn't match fit.
eatonparkboy
New Member
There is a difference though between competing and winning. I'm sure a straw poll would have selected both men in the starting 11. I'm sure both players would have wanted to start. It isn't a question of 11 players, it is what or who is the best 11.
If the manager fancies Grabban more than Jerome that is his job but Redmond played competitive football through the some of the summer and should be match fit.
Or are we going down the route that if you want players to be at their best they need more rest than playing time. Many players, not prima donnas, would argue they stay sharper the more they play.
Canaryboy
Well-Known Member
So are people saying that we should have started both Redmond and Hoolahan?
Because I'm sure that Alex Neil made a selection knowing that our full backs would be in for a rough ride, although I personally don't think Whittaker was given enough help down that right side by Howson (who I assume was the man supposed to do that job).
Starting Redmond wouldn't have helped things though. Not sure we'd have been any better off starting with Redmond and Hoolahan, and if we'd lost with Hoolahan on the bench we'd be arguing that he should have started?
Who would people have dropped for Redmond? Dorrans? Because he had a superb first half, and was a large part of the reason why we had so much possession. We are going to have quality players on the bench every week, and every time we lose we can always use the "should have started" argument.
You also need enough quality on the bench to try and turn a game at this level, which Redmond did when he came on and made an impact.
I can't explain myself why he started Grabban over Jerome, but possible that he had an knock? But again, we are only having this argument because Grabban missed a sitter, we wouldn't be having it if he'd buried one of his chances, and it is clear that we are in the market for another striker, Grabban isn't going to get many more starts unless he starts sticking the ball in the net.
If we never started Grabban and we struggled for goals, we'd get fans saying that we haven't given Grabban a chance, like we did Becchio.
Also, Jerome looked very hungry when he came on, perhaps it was starting on the bench which fired him up? Remember that Lambert dropped Grant Holt to the bench for over a month when we came up, and look what happened.
I don't want Grabban to be started very many games as a lone striker, but neither do I want any player to feel that their place is the team is guaranteed, especially not Redmond as it happens.
Because I'm sure that Alex Neil made a selection knowing that our full backs would be in for a rough ride, although I personally don't think Whittaker was given enough help down that right side by Howson (who I assume was the man supposed to do that job).
Starting Redmond wouldn't have helped things though. Not sure we'd have been any better off starting with Redmond and Hoolahan, and if we'd lost with Hoolahan on the bench we'd be arguing that he should have started?
Who would people have dropped for Redmond? Dorrans? Because he had a superb first half, and was a large part of the reason why we had so much possession. We are going to have quality players on the bench every week, and every time we lose we can always use the "should have started" argument.
You also need enough quality on the bench to try and turn a game at this level, which Redmond did when he came on and made an impact.
I can't explain myself why he started Grabban over Jerome, but possible that he had an knock? But again, we are only having this argument because Grabban missed a sitter, we wouldn't be having it if he'd buried one of his chances, and it is clear that we are in the market for another striker, Grabban isn't going to get many more starts unless he starts sticking the ball in the net.
If we never started Grabban and we struggled for goals, we'd get fans saying that we haven't given Grabban a chance, like we did Becchio.
Also, Jerome looked very hungry when he came on, perhaps it was starting on the bench which fired him up? Remember that Lambert dropped Grant Holt to the bench for over a month when we came up, and look what happened.
I don't want Grabban to be started very many games as a lone striker, but neither do I want any player to feel that their place is the team is guaranteed, especially not Redmond as it happens.
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The Great Mass Debater
New Member
Personally if both were fit I would have played both Redmond and Hoolahan. We're at home against one of the teams we have a reasonable chance of beating. We need to be bold and agrressive when at home to these clubs. Palace are a good side, but every team in the Premier League is - and we have to beat some of them. This would have been one of the games earmarked as a potential 3 points. At home I think we can afford to play both Hoolahan and Redmond. We need to perhaps be focusing more on how we are going to damage the opposition in these target games, then how we are going to nullify them. Redmond will always be one of our most dangerous attacking options. Having him on the bench in games where we have to get ahead doesnt make much sense to me. There are games where playing Wes and Redmond together would be tactically naive. I dont think this was one of them.
Crystal Palace were away from home, yet how did they play? Two wingers, two creative players in Cabaye and McArthur and Mutch also. They didnt pack the midfield with defensive midfielders and play a solid line-up. They had 4 predominantly attacking players in their 5 man midfield (dont really know enough about Mutch to comment on his game). They left Jedniak on the bench. Ok they had much less of the ball, but they caused us some problems and they won the game. They focused on their strengths and were rewarded with 3 goals away from home for it.
I totally appreciate the point about Dorrans being a major part of why we had so much possession, and this is far more under the radar than Redmond bursting down the wing or spanking one in, but I just feel we need all our cards on the table in these winnable home games.
If they'd both have been fit Id have started with Redmond and Hoolahan. For this game
Crystal Palace were away from home, yet how did they play? Two wingers, two creative players in Cabaye and McArthur and Mutch also. They didnt pack the midfield with defensive midfielders and play a solid line-up. They had 4 predominantly attacking players in their 5 man midfield (dont really know enough about Mutch to comment on his game). They left Jedniak on the bench. Ok they had much less of the ball, but they caused us some problems and they won the game. They focused on their strengths and were rewarded with 3 goals away from home for it.
I totally appreciate the point about Dorrans being a major part of why we had so much possession, and this is far more under the radar than Redmond bursting down the wing or spanking one in, but I just feel we need all our cards on the table in these winnable home games.
If they'd both have been fit Id have started with Redmond and Hoolahan. For this game
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morty
Moderator
Staff member
Missed this earlier ( Not sure if there is something odd going on with quoting)
Whats this "in crowd" thing about? And not being entitled to an opinion?
Alex Neil did not "miss a trick" or get anything tactically wrong, he actually came out in the press conference and explained Redmond and Jerome not starting for the reasons that I typed. It isn't just my opinion, those were his own actual words.
TA Canary
New Member
Reports today that we've submitted an official bid for Destro. We wouldn't make such a move without checking with the player that he's actually interested in coming, so there may be something in this after all.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3195732/Norwich-City-make-4-5m-formal-offer-Roma-Italy-striker-Mattia-Destro.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3195732/Norwich-City-make-4-5m-formal-offer-Roma-Italy-striker-Mattia-Destro.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490
splutcho
Moderator
Well whatever is and isn't happening, we're now almost certainly not getting anyone in before Sunderland, which is a worry. We also look as though we're not strengthening the defence, which is an even bigger worry.
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SussexYellow
Active Member
The lack of getting players in is a concern and one that grows as each day passes.
However the last Monday thing was hyped up on not much evidence. It would have had to have been something ongoing, and there was not even a whisper of anything happening. I can not remember the last time we signed a player where there was absolutely nothing on the rumour mill.
Even if we had have signed somebody I do not think it would be AN's style to start a player after a couple of days. Bench maybe. So we would always be going to Sunderland with what we have.
Simply put we do not have the resources to pay inflated prices early in the window. Brady was the exception in that we probably paid more than intended eventually to secure him. Plus there did not seem to be any competition for his signature. We also do not have the draw to get class players early in the window. They can bide their time and hope a big club comes in for them.
So a best of the rest at the end of the transfer window was always a likely scenario. Lets hope we are now at that stage and we can get a couple in.
OTBC
However the last Monday thing was hyped up on not much evidence. It would have had to have been something ongoing, and there was not even a whisper of anything happening. I can not remember the last time we signed a player where there was absolutely nothing on the rumour mill.
Even if we had have signed somebody I do not think it would be AN's style to start a player after a couple of days. Bench maybe. So we would always be going to Sunderland with what we have.
Simply put we do not have the resources to pay inflated prices early in the window. Brady was the exception in that we probably paid more than intended eventually to secure him. Plus there did not seem to be any competition for his signature. We also do not have the draw to get class players early in the window. They can bide their time and hope a big club comes in for them.
So a best of the rest at the end of the transfer window was always a likely scenario. Lets hope we are now at that stage and we can get a couple in.
OTBC
splutcho
Moderator
Agreed on the Monday thing, but I definitely saw an article where AN said he wanted one in before this weekend.
The Great Mass Debater
New Member
Not sure I'd follow your logic there. I think we agreed fees for Quagliarella, Alderweireld, Toivonen and Biglia in the past only to find the player didnt have the slightest interest in joining. Being willing to pay what a club wants for an unwanted player is one thing. Convincing that player to come is entirely different. Compared to the rest of the Premiership all we really offer is a good chance of regular football. What I read said they player doesnt want to leave Italy, so think we're going down a blind alley if we really are chasing this one
Canaryboy
Well-Known Member
Wouldn't we be 'tapping him up' if we did that? I think have an offer accepted and then talking to the player and his representatives is the way things are supposed to be done?
TA Canary
New Member
There was a pretty nice article on Sky Sports recently about how transfers are done. On this level, it's almost certain there will be contact with the club and the player's agent before bids are made.
http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/9921213/summer-transfer-window-2015-the-anatomy-of-the-deal
I can't say what went wrong with the bids TGMD mentioned, at least with Alderweireld it looks like he was using us to attract bids from bigger clubs and it worked.
The Destro thing I was going to dismiss as pure fantasy before this bid.
http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/9921213/summer-transfer-window-2015-the-anatomy-of-the-deal
I can't say what went wrong with the bids TGMD mentioned, at least with Alderweireld it looks like he was using us to attract bids from bigger clubs and it worked.
The Destro thing I was going to dismiss as pure fantasy before this bid.
The Great Mass Debater
New Member
It is concerning though that we look likely to have chased targets too ambitious for us and will be left with no signing or a panic signing
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It's Character Forming
New Member
I have to agree that with hindsight when we were pursuing Quag, Toivonen, Alderweireld etc, we were too ambitious with the level of continental players we were going for.
At the start of the window I think we all knew that a striker and a CB were our priority, plus IMO an upgrade at right back. I'm not unhappy with the people we've signed so far, but if we don't get both those slots filled, I will be worried.
At the start of the window I think we all knew that a striker and a CB were our priority, plus IMO an upgrade at right back. I'm not unhappy with the people we've signed so far, but if we don't get both those slots filled, I will be worried.
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CanaryNath
New Member
Destro has apparently agreed to go to Bologna on a season long loan.
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brhdodds
New Member
Couldn't agree more! Definitely the two positions we needed to focus on to challenge in the Prem.
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