SafeStanding at Carrow Road

[Beauseant]

Because they take their inspiration from the German fan culture, hence the Germanic spelling.

This relates back to my point about the economic argument not being made. The cost to City of revamping terracing and fitting rail seats is estimated at well over £1m with no significant increase in capacity, yet standing fans would expect to pay less for their tickets. The numbers don't add up, much as I'd like to see people given the choice, which is why the Trust has kept a neutral stance on the issue.

 

[Canaryboy]

I thought that safe standing almost doubles the capacity when the seats are locked up? So it would increase capacity? 

The typical ratio is 18 safe standing to 10 seated I believe, so multiply the capacity of the Lower Barclay by 1.8 and that's what the capacity would be when the area is used for standing? 

That was my point, that £1m is chicken feed if it can add a couple of thousand to the capacity, compared with the £30m estimated to rebuild the City Stand.

 

[Beauseant]

The point is Jack, as a couple of others have pointed out, standing is currently illegal in the the Prem and the Championship, therefore the rail seats could only be sold as seats, giving no increase in capacity. The club's choice is therefore whether to spend £1m in the hope that the law changes or wait and see what happens.

 

[CanaryNath]

CanaryBoy, you're correct, it would almost double the capacity of the lower Barclay.

If the cost of installation was around the £1m mark, that outlay would be more than made back within a single season, assuming 2,000 extra bodies.

SHOULD the law be changed, then it is a no-brainer.

 

[GazzaTCC]

I recently attended one of the FSF fans roadshow in London, they're currently going around the country, at which safe standing was one of the topics discussed.

The point was made at the start of the discussion, that the the FSF had previously agreed, after discussions with its member groups, not to actively campaign for safe standing whilst the Hillsborough Inquests are on-going, out of respect for those who lost their lives.

That said, they are well aware of the fundamental issues, particularly the need to make the financial case for safe standing.

I suspect that these issues will / are being addressed ready in time to progress the campaign properly, at the appropriate moment, but, probably not until at least 2016.

 

[Canaryboy]

The point is Jack, as a couple of others have pointed out, standing is currently illegal in the the Prem and the Championship, therefore the rail seats could only be sold as seats, giving no increase in capacity. The club's choice is therefore whether to spend £1m in the hope that the law changes or wait and see what happens.

Well of course the law would have to change first, but that's what the whole safe standing campaign is about isn't it? I was responding to your suggestion that there wouldn't be a significant increase in capacity, I didn't realise that you meant no change prior to the law change, whilst seats had to remain locked down. 

Interesting that the only party leader to speak in support of this law change so far is Nick Clegg, who represents a constituency in Sheffield (although on the United side of the city!). Not that his party will hold any cards in the next parliament of course, it will be SNP or UKIP with the balance of power this time around. 

 

[Canaryboy]

SHOULD the law be changed, then it is a no-brainer.

Indeed, a no-brainer for us, in the event of the law being changed considering how we don't really have any other options. 

 

[morty]

Celtic have just been given permission to install rail seating.

Progress!

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/celtic-get-green-light-to-install-standing-areas-at-parkhead.128458507

 

[Scott]

Think its a great idea, its weird but atmosphere just seems t feel better with everyone standing.

 

[ZLF]

great news - now just need english law to be changed in line with scottish law..

 

[morty]

great news - now just need english law to be changed in line with scottish law..

I think its almost inevitable now. The FA will keep an eye on how it goes, and hopefully act soon.

 

[ZLF]

I suspect it will be a case of see how the celtic trial goes and wait for the hillsborough inquest to conclude before anything happens here.    

However I dont think the FA can do FA about it;   its not on their hands,  although they can lobby parliament to get a change and that may be an additional stumbling block;  finding space and supprt within the parliamentary timetable to make it happen.    The queens speech was full of prioritised legislation for this term;  with plenty more in the pipeline ;   it will need tory backing to get it through or a backbench proposal with limited opposition to make the necessary change. 

 

[morty]

I suspect it will be a case of see how the celtic trial goes and wait for the hillsborough inquest to conclude before anything happens here.    

However I dont think the FA can do FA about it;   its not on their hands,  although they can lobby parliament to get a change and that may be an additional stumbling block;  finding space and supprt within the parliamentary timetable to make it happen.    The queens speech was full of prioritised legislation for this term;  with plenty more in the pipeline ;   it will need tory backing to get it through or a backbench proposal with limited opposition to make the necessary change. 

Oh right, I didn't realise that there was actual legislation involved. I wonder why the legislation didn't apply in Scotland, or if they voted something in their own parliament?

 

[morty]

Ah, there we go, Scotland was never bound by the law.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/33061483

 

[Fenway Frank]

Has Scotland ever been bound by any laws ?

 

[Suffolk Canary]

It sounds like its going to be a long battle to ever get it in the main leagues here.  Celtic have been fighting for it since 2010, and aren't even installing it until the start of next season. Looks like I'll have to keep settling for away games and non league football to get my standing-during-football kicks. 

 

[Suffolk Canary]

Has Scotland ever been bound by any laws ?

'He who has the biggest stick is in charge' ?

 

[Moosheep]

Oh right, I didn't realise that there was actual legislation involved. I wonder why the legislation didn't apply in Scotland, or if they voted something in their own parliament?

To my knowledge there is no law requiring all seated stadia in Scotland but until recently it was a condition of membership of the SPL.

In England there is a legal requirement for clubs in the top two divisions to have all seater stadia, however there is no legal requirement for supporters to actually sit when watching a match. This rule is a football league regulation (possibly only a recommendation?) enforced by individual clubs. Standing is not a criminal offence, but a breach of contract between the spectator and the club. Introducing safe standing would not require a change in the law, just a change in stadium regulations.

 

[morty]

To my knowledge there is no law requiring all seated stadia in Scotland but until recently it was a condition of membership of the SPL.

In England there is a legal requirement for clubs in the top two divisions to have all seater stadia, however there is no legal requirement for supporters to actually sit when watching a match. This rule is a football league regulation (possibly only a recommendation?) enforced by individual clubs. Standing is not a criminal offence, but a breach of contract between the spectator and the club. Introducing safe standing would not require a change in the law, just a change in stadium regulations.

Yeah I read up on it a bit after I posted about it, section 11 of the football spectators act, 1989.

 

[ZLF]

so we could have safe standing seat on the basis of existing seating plans - but to increase capacity (ie more than one person per seating bar - as per Dortmund) we would need legal change.

Without the incentive of increased capacity I would struggle to know why clubs would do this - ie pay for a change in seating with no financial benefit?