Stick or Bust

[GJP]

I wonder how we compare points wise at this stage of the season compared to our 3 previous campaigns.

Anyway, yeah, need to spend some money in January. Huge window for us. Perhaps we can make up for previous January windows which have been pretty poor efforts.

 

[morty]

I wonder how we compare points wise at this stage of the season compared to our 3 previous campaigns.

Anyway, yeah, need to spend some money in January. Huge window for us. Perhaps we can make up for previous January windows which have been pretty poor efforts.

Given an option I would rather we do our business in the summer, but as I said, I believe bids were tabled and never came off.

 

[Din]

The circumstance of not wanting to get relegated.

The circumstance that, in our final season under Hughton we spent about £25m on new players, £15m of which on 2 new strikers, the most money a Norwich manager has ever spent. We also had just come off the back of a season where we finished in 11th, and the season before we'd finished 12th. That final season was about us trying to kick on to the next level, rather than just try and stay up. Yet what that season ended up consisting of was us playing miserably and losing practically every single away game, getting embarrassed in some of them, and then at home we'd play just as boringly but very occasionally we'd nick a 1-0 win. 

This season however is our first since getting promoted. We only had a net spend of £2m in the summer transfer window (whether that was the fault of the board or not is another matter, however when judging Neil it's ultimately irrelevant), and yet we're currently sitting 15th in the table, and after half the season we have 20 points, meaning we're on target to hit 40 points, which will keep us up. With the exception of the Newcastle game (which is clear now was just a one-off bad day) we haven't been thrashed at all this season, and have beaten Manchester United away, drew with Liverpool away, and even in defeat to Chelsea and Manchester City we played well. With all that in mind, I can't see how anyone can say Alex Neil isn't doing a good job. Unlike Hughton's final season, the only aim this season will be to stay up, at the moment we are well and truly on track to do that. 

 

[hogesar]

I wonder how we compare points wise at this stage of the season compared to our 3 previous campaigns.

Anyway, yeah, need to spend some money in January. Huge window for us. Perhaps we can make up for previous January windows which have been pretty poor efforts.

At this stage we had 19 points under Hughton. Key differences:

1) The style of play. It made me want to pour boiling coffee into my eyes.

2) The lack of adaptation. Couldn't change a game, subs couldn't have an effect nor could Hughton change formation, structure, or style.

3) We had lost heavily to Arsenal (4-1), Liverpool (5-1) and Man City (7-0).

4) We had broken our transfer records in the summer, Hughton had a team that had just spent a couple seasons in the Prem as opposed to one which had been in the Championship.

So yeah, entirely different scenario essentially.

 

[eatonparkboy]

To me, I would rather see us play good football in a lower division rather than the style we are playing right now in the Prem.

Luckily in some ways, down here in Cornwall, I can criticise because I haven't invested in a season ticket etc and can perhaps be more selective in what I say.

But even on this board, I do sense many are prepared to watch us struggling just to be in the Prem.

AN played good football for the first ten games (Southampton was Whittakers fault IMO and the Newcastle game was a freak) but after the Newcastle game became defensive. And to a certain degree it has worked. But to me it isn't enjoyable to watch.

But I don't see any more reason to sack him now than after the really bad run we went on. If he keeps us in the Prem come what may, then he will have done his job for the club, the board and probably 99% of the supporters.

 

[morty]

To me, I would rather see us play good football in a lower division rather than the style we are playing right now in the Prem.

Luckily in some ways, down here in Cornwall, I can criticise because I haven't invested in a season ticket etc and can perhaps be more selective in what I say.

But even on this board, I do sense many are prepared to watch us struggling just to be in the Prem.

AN played good football for the first ten games (Southampton was Whittakers fault IMO and the Newcastle game was a freak) but after the Newcastle game became defensive. And to a certain degree it has worked. But to me it isn't enjoyable to watch.

But I don't see any more reason to sack him now than after the really bad run we went on. If he keeps us in the Prem come what may, then he will have done his job for the club, the board and probably 99% of the supporters.

Not sure what you're saying here, I think we are playing decent football most of the time.

More to the point, and this is the crux, we have switched to playing more effective, intelligent football.

 

[Killiecanary]

To me, I would rather see us play good football in a lower division rather than the style we are playing right now in the Prem.

Luckily in some ways, down here in Cornwall, I can criticise because I haven't invested in a season ticket etc and can perhaps be more selective in what I say.

But even on this board, I do sense many are prepared to watch us struggling just to be in the Prem.

AN played good football for the first ten games (Southampton was Whittakers fault IMO and the Newcastle game was a freak) but after the Newcastle game became defensive. And to a certain degree it has worked. But to me it isn't enjoyable to watch.

But I don't see any more reason to sack him now than after the really bad run we went on. If he keeps us in the Prem come what may, then he will have done his job for the club, the board and probably 99% of the supporters.

sorry...can I just clarify?

Are you saying you would be happy for us to be relegated so we could play inferior teams every week and play 'attacking' football against these inferior teams? 

Surely that is madness?  For all the championship can be exciting I watched some boring big wins last season (I was as bored watching us thrash Willmaul, Huddersfield etc as I would have been watching a tight, tactical 0-0 battle) 

i want my team to play at the highest level possible, against the best and most technically gifted opposition possible,in front of the biggest crowds possible and to challenge ourselves against the best.  If that means 'struggling' in the prem then fine.  There is no way to move on to the next level (like Palace, Stoke, WBA) without having some time of struggle in the prem 

 

[eatonparkboy]

Not sure what you're saying here, I think we are playing decent football most of the time.

More to the point, and this is the crux, we have switched to playing more effective, intelligent football.

That was my point. I don't find this football, effective it may prove to be, is what I like to watch. I'm sure I am in the minority as I said in my post.

 

[splutcho]

Wanting to play in a lower division so we win more is the definition of a small club mindset. If you don't want to be as successful as you can be as a club then jack it in and go home, this game ain't for you.

 

[eatonparkboy]

sorry...can I just clarify?

Are you saying you would be happy for us to be relegated so we could play inferior teams every week and play 'attacking' football against these inferior teams? 

Surely that is madness?  For all the championship can be exciting I watched some boring big wins last season (I was as bored watching us thrash Willmaul, Huddersfield etc as I would have been watching a tight, tactical 0-0 battle) 

i want my team to play at the highest level possible, against the best and most technically gifted opposition possible,in front of the biggest crowds possible and to challenge ourselves against the best.  If that means 'struggling' in the prem then fine.  There is no way to move on to the next level (like Palace, Stoke, WBA) without having some time of struggle in the prem 

Fine if that is what you prefer and I have pointed out that I am in the minority and some of the reasons I am. 

 

[morty]

That was my point. I don't find this football, effective it may prove to be, is what I like to watch. I'm sure I am in the minority as I said in my post.

I kind of see what you're saying, I loved the Championship, and also league one. But they were just a transition though, a path back to being where we belong. I would hate to be stuck in the grind of the Championship year after year a la Ipswich.

 

[Killiecanary]

Then I am happy to agree to disagree Eaton!  Happy New Year to you down there in the Deep South-West!

 

[eatonparkboy]

Wanting to play in a lower division so we win more is the definition of a small club mindset. If you don't want to be as successful as you can be as a club then jack it in and go home, this game ain't for you.

That's a wee bit harsh and a bit rude. I have watched football for many many years and know what I like.  

I might as well be on the Pink Un and call myself LDC with comments like that. 

I try and make my point respectfully and honestly. Because I don't always agree doesn't make me right of course. But this is NorwichTalk not the Stepford wives version.

 

[eatonparkboy]

Then I am happy to agree to disagree Eaton!  Happy New Year to you down there in the Deep South-West!

Thank you sir. Nice talking to you.

 

[eatonparkboy]

I kind of see what you're saying, I loved the Championship, and also league one. But they were just a transition though, a path back to being where we belong. I would hate to be stuck in the grind of the Championship year after year a la Ipswich.

To me football is an event as much as anything. All the years I lived in Norwich I went game after game and the first year in Division One I went to most away games. Going to Old Trafford etc on equal terms and not just in the FA Cup meant so much.

Now I'm in Cornwall I can only get to away games and in the L1 season went to so many and to be honest met, and I hesitate to say true but you know what I mean, supporters. The event meant as much as the result. And the compliments I received about our "club" and that includes supporters, was immense.

Of course I want us to compete in the Prem. Not hang on but compete. And I can enjoy a scrap but hard fought match as much as the next man. But I have always liked my football to played in a certain way and I guess I will never detract from that.

But I did admit on another topic that I am probably an out of touch dinosaur. For example, I thought Rudd was our MOTM just for that save in the first half that if he had not may well have changed the outcome. And the tone of the match posts. But maybe my beliefs have livened up this topic and I haven't done it to stir it up just to contribute.

 

[splutcho]

That's a wee bit harsh and a bit rude. I have watched football for many many years and know what I like.  

I might as well be on the Pink Un and call myself LDC with comments like that. 

I try and make my point respectfully and honestly. Because I don't always agree doesn't make me right of course. But this is NorwichTalk not the Stepford wives version.

Apologies if you feel like it was rude, but I feel very strongly about it. It doesn't make any sense at all. What would we do after we play all this entertaining football and win all those games? Make sure we lose just enough games in the Championship to finish 7th?  Finish 1st and demand we switch places with the team that finish 3rd? Go to Wembley with no prize at the end? Of course once this strange new club mantra was made public we'd lose our entire team and most of the supporters and within a few years would drop out of the football league. I wonder how entertained we would all be as we pass Kings Lynn on the way down?

 

[Canaryboy]

The major flaw with the argument that the Championship is more exciting than being a lower half Premier League team is that people are comparing a Championship team which benefited from £25m in parachute payments and therefore had the budget to hold together a squad which contains the likes of Nathan Redmond and Johnny Howson, rather than one which has failed to win promotion within two years and then finds itself fighting over great footballing luminaries like Jamie O'Hara or crossing our fingers that there is a tiny chance our new £500k striker Stevie May could become the new Grant Holt. 

Or even worse, actually signing a shot to pieces Grant Holt on loan which is what Wolves have done. 

To put it simply, we wouldn't have had a squad capable of thrashing Millwall 6-1 and doing the double over Ipswich last season if it weren't for three years in the Premier League and £25m in parachute payments. 

The Championship can be fun when you feel like you are "on loan to the Championship" and then actually manage to pull off an instant return, but much less fun when you are stuck in this league and having to sell your best players every year to balance the books.

Mark Fotheringham and Jason Jarrett is what being stuck in the Championship got us last time around, nothing at all exciting about that period. 

 

[Dubai Mark]

Quality thread! Oh my and even mention of LDC!

Its amazing how we all see things differently, but other than the first half dozen games or so, I must say that the entertainment value really has not been much better than during CH's time (I know that's controversial, but LDC would back me up ),  ........BUT, I understand fully why this is........and we just had a great example, we tried to play a little more expansive at Spurs, and looked a decent side in an entertaining and high quality match, yet got tonked, and it could have been a heavier defeat. Then, yesterday we played against a very poor Villa side in a match that was, lets be honest, no better than Championship mid table level, played shall we say "conservatively" and we get the three points.

Must stress,I'm happy to see a season like this where points are more important if it means we do not drop back down to the Chumpionship, this season so crucial in the bigger scheme of things financially and then in terms of our great club's development. 

I also believe that, and AN himself intimated this in his interview yesterday, this squad has actually under performed, it is a decent squad with more depth than CH and PL had at their disposal,even despite not strengthening enough in the summer.  

Hopefully we will see a couple of key signings in the window to add to Jarvis, that will help us go on and register more than 20 additional points, as I really dont like this "40 target" at all, even though I think that will be enough this year..........  

 

[eatonparkboy]

Thanks for the apology and maybe I misread your tone.

I think there has been an over reaction to my statement. My intent is that I would hate to see 38 matches like Saturday's which I think the majority have agreed was poor, just to maintain our status. And I admitted on the match post I was relieved at the result.

 

[eatonparkboy]

Sorry the previous post should have been for Splutcho.