Team changes for Forest game?

[Salopian]

(I didn't see the game at Boro, or even the lowlights. My judgement is thus informed only by what I have read.)

It seems that we started brightly but conceded an early goal which didn't help team confidence.When a team lets in four goals, you always suspect defensive frailties, but sometimes in can be a porous midfield offering little protection.

We seem to have had both - a defence where no player was very good - Ruddy dropped the ball to allow one, Martin was at fault for perhaps two, and Whittaker a constant source of concern. The fullbacks could argue that they were exposed by wingers who didn't tackle back as they should.

Does any need to be dropped/rested for the next game? It sounds as if Martin should move to RB, and the best of Hoioveld, Iggy and Cuellar should partner Turner. (Thank goodness Bennett will be back in a week or two!)

The midfield is a slight cause for concern. Tettey must play, and with Howson or O'Neill alongside him. Wingers must be prepared to track back. Lafferty seems injured, so it may be Josh and Redders.. They will be needed further forward as well, to break open the rather weak Forest defence, so they could be busy. Do we play 4-5-1, to shore up the midfield, or go for 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 to exploit the Forest defensive weaknesses? This is a difficult decision. It might have been easier if Vadis or Wes were available.

 

[Ankles]

Goals are up on youtube, it's a horror showing by our back 4

No communication, no positional sense

Hooiveld must come back as left side CB, Turner can then get back on the right side, I believe that will result in more competent displays by whoever plays RB or LB (I'd actually play Whittaker and Olsson)

Tettey holds in front of back 4, Howson allowed and encouraged to push on through the middle.

O'Neil & Lafferty playing left and right of a diamond, not out and out wingers though. As/when LB or RB go forward then O'Neil drops deeper and covers, supporting Tettey (Lafferty & Howson get in the box)

Jerome & Hooper up front

 

[gerryinromania]

Can't see too much wrong in this Mr.Ankles..Feel that Redmond has the pace and trickery, but not really delivering right now. Also feel that Martin and dare I say, Ruddy are causes of quite a few of our goals against this season

 

[Din]

Ruddy​

Martin Turner Miquel Olsson​

O'Neil Tettey​

Redmond Howson Lafferty​

Jerome​

 ​

Didn't watch the game on Tuesday, so it's hard to judge, but Whittaker desperately needs to be dropped. Hard to drop one of Howson, O'Neil or Tettey as they were all excellent against Bolton. Redmond has to start, and it seems that Lafferty is our best option in left midfield at the moment. I would also keep Jerome in the team ahead of Hooper, simply because of Jerome's 2 goals last week, but Hooper is pushing for a start now.

 

[Surgeryman]

I agree with a lot of the defensive comments, which are basically play players in the right position and drop the poor performers.

Midfield is tricky. I struggle to actually see what Howson brings to the team to be honest. Is he a defensive player, no. Is he a creative influence, no? Doesn't to reality do it for me. Why not give the lad from Scotland MCGrandles a go?

Tettey and O Neil to play without doubt and quite like the idea of Redmond on the right and Olssen on the left

Jerome with Hooper just behind

Ruddy

R. Martin, Turner Hooiveld Garrido

Tettey O Neil

Redmond Hooper Olssen

Jerome

 

[Killiecanary]

This is interesting. I don't know a single NCFC fan who doesn't agree that Russell Martin has to play right back and Turner to move over to the right central berth with Whittaker dropped. And have been saying for weeks now. Yet we have the same back 4 week after week. I would also have Garrido in for Olsson who hasn't been anywhere near last season's form.

But surely if 25,000 of us can see it surely the manager must too? Surely?

I also think Ruddy has been suspect recently too....probably because he is playing behind a porous defence and therefore always jumpy

 

[Surgeryman]

This is interesting. I don't know a single NCFC fan who doesn't agree that Russell Martin has to play right back and Turner to move over to the right central berth with Whittaker dropped. And have been saying for weeks now. Yet we have the same back 4 week after week. I would also have Garrido in for Olsson who hasn't been anywhere near last season's form.

But surely if 25,000 of us can see it surely the manager must too? Surely?

I also think Ruddy has been suspect recently too....probably because he is playing behind a porous defence and therefore always jumpy

It does seem Neil likes his favourites. The best for the team should be the mindset.

If he is not playing for example the 3 brought in CBs then he must feel they are not good enough. They must be dreadful not to get in at the moment!! Who brought them in?

 

[GJP]

This is interesting. I don't know a single NCFC fan who doesn't agree that Russell Martin has to play right back and Turner to move over to the right central berth with Whittaker dropped. 

I don't agree with that.

We've been weak on the right side of our defence for a long, long time. And that's been the case with Martin at RB or at CB.

So I'd like to see Martin out of the defence with Whittaker playing alongside a proper CB (Turner) and another proper CB alongside him.

But...I'm not sure if Martin would ever be dropped by NA.

 

[Yellow Fever]

Good discussion. The diamond is a possibility, but might leave us exposed in midfield after the confidence drain at Boro. I'd stick with the 4-2-3-1 but drop either Martin or Whittaker and bring Hooiveld or Miquel in at CB.

 

[SussexYellow]

Good discussion. The diamond is a possibility, but might leave us exposed in midfield after the confidence drain at Boro. I'd stick with the 4-2-3-1 but drop either Martin or Whittaker and bring Hooiveld or Miquel in at CB.

Yep I would go along with that.

 

[morty]

Yep I would go along with that.

Ditto.

I would love to know why Adams is persisting in playing Martin at CB, I really would. I can only assume he has little confidence in other options.

Have Hooiveld and Miquel turned out to be duds? Carrying injuries?

I know Martin plays CB internationally, but I think he would be better utilised at RB.

 

[GazzaTCC]

I have little confidence in Whitaker as a right back and only marginally more confidence in Martin as a centre back.

I prefer 4-2-3-1 but it does rely on the full backs pushing forward and leaves us exposed to commuter counter attacks down the wings and diagonal balls into the space behind the full backs.

Whittaker is also often exposed by the fact that Redmond doesn't offer much defensive cover in front of him.

Of course, if you keep possession better, the transition from attack to defence becomes less of an issue.

 

[ZLF]

Tuesdays game for me was a one off horror show for the midfield backed up by a continued weak defensive performance.  

Firstly I agree with Ankles that we have to remove Martin from CB;  his performance on Tue was shocking and the worst of the back 4;  and his weaknesses are compounded when combined with whittaker.    Shift turner right and chose either Iggy or Hooiveld who other than lacking pace (as does turner and martin) has not done too much wrong and had at least one game where he was actually better than turner,  something we have not seen from Russ.

Whittaker has been poor but so has Martin,  and in reality there really is a gnats chuff in difference between their incompetence;  I had hoped a drop in level would have seen them both perform well this year,  but that simply has not happened.     My preference is to start with Martin;  purely on the basis that we are unbeaten with him at right back - being captain I suspect he will start,  but that should not really have a bearing.    Alternatively we could justifiably drop both martin and whittaker and start cuellar;  but i dont see that happening.    Olsson should lose his place purely for the woeful covering of Bamford for the opening goal so Garrido starts for me.   Olsson starting would be less controversial and Martin remaining at CB.

I also prefer a 4231.   Hoping that Tuesday was a one off  I would stick with the same front 6; Tettey and Oneil deep with Howson completing the central triangle,  with both Redmond and Lafferty wide to feed Jerome.      All need to up their game from Tuesday but generally (lack of goals excepted) the midfield has ticked over well and 8 goals from 12/13 appearances from Jerome very respectable. 

What I will be fuming at is an unchanged defence or a return for Johnson,  both would be completely the wrong decision.   Moving to 2 up front I may just accept but given its not really worked for us (our bad run started with its introduction) I would remain to be convinced.

COYY!

 

[Killiecanary]

I don't agree with that.

We've been weak on the right side of our defence for a long, long time. And that's been the case with Martin at RB or at CB.

So I'd like to see Martin out of the defence with Whittaker playing alongside a proper CB (Turner) and another proper CB alongside him.

But...I'm not sure if Martin would ever be dropped by NA.

I rate Martin as. Right back - but only in the right setup and with him given licence to overlap.

I actually watch him every single match for Scotland and he is immense at CB. I really mean it. Partnered with Hanley of Blackburn (who also looks like a carthourse domestically) they have been absolutely instrumental in Scotland's recent vast improvement. Strachan just sets the team up to suit them. And this is what worries me about NA - although I still would give him plenty of time to get it right...if you go with an inexperienced manager then surely you have to accept the he will need time. I cannot see how the team is supposed to function....what is our midfield style...diamond? 4 tucked in? Wingers? Inside Halfs? 2 holding with one tucked in? 1 holding with 2 in front? Against Leeds I couldn't really work out what we were trying in the end.

We have midfielders who would get into virtually any starting team in this division (Howson, Vadis, O'Neill, Redmond, Josh Murphy, Tettey, Hoolahan). I won't stretch it to include Bradders....but we are again playing a 6ft plus striker at left wing?? And even if we do that Ollsson hardly ever goes past him this year meaning he is more or less stuck out in the wing?

I honestly don't think NA knows what his first choice team or formation would be if everyone was fit...and to be honest at the moment I don't think I have a clear opinion either!

But he needs to find it. And fast!

 

[GJP]

Yes, I've seen him play for Scotland too. I've seen him lose a couple of headers that have cost them goals. But generally he does ok, especially because Hanley does a lot of the ball winning.

Anyway, what he does for Scotland has nothing to do with it. Same with any player playing for their country.

Interesting point about the midfielders, you include Vadis and Josh amongst those that'd get into "virtually any" team in this division but don't include Johnson. I'm not particularly a fan of Johnson but I bet he'd have more takers than the other two.

 

[Killiecanary]

I like Johnson as long as we don't expect too much. I think he is a good midfield warrior, but his passing, touch and shooting are all inconsistent at best. And in a team that has 1 midfield water carrier and 2 more creative playmakers, for me Tettey wins over Johnson every time.

My point about Russ at CB isn't to suggest he should be in the norwich side at CB, in fact I really don't want him three for us, but rather that I worry about the way NA doesn't seem to be setting the team up to pay to collective strengths, and indeed the consistency in selection currently, even when performances from individual players don't warrant their continued selection. I think RM can play centre back, and to support my point I offer the quality of his performances there for a fast improving Scotland side at the moment, but he can't play there alongside Turner or in the current formation.

I accept my inclusion of Josh as an established Championship midfielder might be a bit ambitious at this stage!!