That £6m profit that we made last season...

[Canaryboy]

Will no doubt come in handy this season, in helping us sustain a competitive squad and give us the best possible chance of promotion.

But is it an elephant in the room? 

I'm reluctant to keep looking backwards, and as a club we need to look forward, but I can't help wondering whether that £6m could have been converted into the 4 points we needed to finish 17th. 

£3.5m, for example, was the difference between the transfer fee for Van Wolfswinkel and the transfer fee for Wilfried Bony in the summer. You would have expected £6m to have been plenty enough to have paid Hughton off and appointed Adams in January, with enough for Adams to bring in a couple of loans. 

In January we made two loan signings, Yobo and Gutierrez, when it was clear to most that we were seriously lacking in the final third. It shows that we had the money to gamble on a decent striker or creative midfielder on loan?

Interestingly, it also shows that had we signed Alderweireld or Quagliarella, we'd probably have finished the season with a financial loss? It was often said that Hughton's system failed because he'd failed to bring in a quality number 10, but was the money even there to bring a player like that in? 

Of course, we could have spent that money and still been relegated, in which case we'd be in a worse position now. And I'm no accountant so don't know whether we get landed with big tax bills this season which relate to last years operations (in which case we'd need that money). 

It is interesting to know that whilst the pot wasn't empty, there wasn't actually enough money in it to sign Alderweireld or Quagliarella unless we'd budgeted for a mid-table finish (where the difference might have been recouped in prize money?). 

 

[The Great Mass Debater]

I'm reluctant to keep looking backwards, and as a club we need to look forward, but I can't help wondering whether that £6m could have been converted into the 4 points we needed to finish 17th. 

Isnt it the case that if (in Hughton's last game) we'd have beaten West Brom, or even not lost, we would have stayed up? (ie they'd have had 3 points less and we'd have had 3 more). 6m might have made the difference in that one game

 

[Din]

To be fair, it's easy to look back and say that now that we've dropped out the league. On the 28th January last season we were in 12th, with Gary Hooper as our main striker in good form. Whilst another creative player/goalscorer in hindsight would've been a good addition, at the time it wasn't as obvious, and it was actually our defence that needed the most improving (we'd already conceded 5 to Liverpool, 7 to Manchester City, 4 to Manchester United) hence why Yobo was bought in.

On paper our squad after the summer transfer window looked very good, and some were even talking about us going for a Europa League place, I don't think that there's a lot more that the management team could've done in the summer transfer window. Yes, in hindsight we should've improved the squad more than we did in January, but again, that's easy to say now. 

 

[Canaryboy]

Isnt it the case that if (in Hughton's last game) we'd have beaten West Brom, or even not lost, we would have stayed up? (ie they'd have had 3 points less and we'd have had 3 more). 6m might have made the difference in that one game

Good point. If we'd have beaten West Brom we'd have finished above them.

A draw wouldn't have been sufficient, as that would have left them above us on goal difference. A draw in that game + one other point would have. 

But we'll never know what a decent attacking player on loan could have brought us, from January to May. I know that it is with hindsight, but imagine what Grant Holt on loan could have done to boost the fans and a few of his former team mates. 

Or just any half good striker who may have been able to come up with a few goals at a time when our own strikers were just not scoring any. The most frustrating thing for me is that we didn't really try anything. We couldn't score in a brothel, and yet we brought in two defensive players in January. Our manager wasn't producing, but we didn't try and get a 'honeymoon period' out of somebody else. 

In the season prior we were actually struggling less for goals, but brought in Kei Kamara, who wasn't great but gave everybody a bit of a boost and chipped in with a goal and a couple of assists. We could have done with a similar singing last season, anybody who could have given us something a little different and a little bit of hope. 

We really need a couple of wins to focus my mind back onto this season and the future, shouldn't be dwelling on this. A win on Friday would be a good start, unfortunately Neil Lennon is having a honeymoon period of his own, just as Kit Symons was when we played Fulham, we've played the struggling teams at the wrong time. 

 

[Canaryboy]

To be fair, it's easy to look back and say that now that we've dropped out the league. On the 28th January last season we were in 12th

Yes, unfortunately we found some OK form in January, and the fixture list was kind to Hughton. Which probably bought him some time and saved him his job.

1 win, 2 draws and 1 defeat in January, plus another draw in the FA Cup. 

Hooper scored 3 goals in December, but went on to score just 1 more in the season. Elmander was consistently ineffective though, as was RVW, so I still think there was good reason to have brought in a striker or an attacking player of some description.

I remember Norwich fans being hugely underwhelmed when the transfer window closed. 

 

[ZLF]

From the commentary it looks like the profit only happen because we were relegated, had we stayed up the profit would have gone in bonuses

The squad was good enough last season but poor tactics and team selection cost us.

 

[GazzaTCC]

From the commentary it looks like the profit only happen because we were relegated, had we stayed up the profit would have gone in bonuses

The squad was good enough last season but poor tactics and team selection cost us.

This is exactly correct, the club had budgeted on the assumption that we'd stay up. Had finished 17th, rather than 18th, the £6m would have been used to pay bonuses then due.

Put another way, the club were spending what they could afford based on cash actually available. None of this speculate to accumulate nonsense.

 

[eatonparkboy]

From the commentary it looks like the profit only happen because we were relegated, had we stayed up the profit would have gone in bonuses

The squad was good enough last season but poor tactics and team selection cost us.

I'm not sure I agree that the whole squad was good enough. Its debatable. If we had stayed up, Hughton would have kept his job and who knows whether he would have changed his philosophy particularly with the crowd reaction to the boring sterile stuff he was producing.

I do believe that the whole squad was not good enough based on his defensive attitude. Clubs like ours cannot and will not go out and spend the big money on defenders, not there are many around. Therefore, I cannot for the life of me understand why managers try and defend with players who just aren't up to it. I don't wish to rake up the past but Lambert's philosophy had much more chance of achievement.

Yes, some of our our squad from last season was capable of holding on to a bottom six place but I don't think our defence, as a unit, could sit and soak up punishment.

 

[Ankles]

We were relegated because Hughton lacked confidence, if he'd have backed himself/the team to go for the win in matches as opposed to setting up not to lose we'd have stayed up

 

[It's Character Forming]

I think the main issue is that Hughton spent £8.5m and £5m on two strikers who didn't suit his style of play, which are the two biggest transfer fees we've paid in our history.  If he'd had more money I still don't think he would have spent it well.

 

[Canaryboy]

Put another way, the club were spending what they could afford based on cash actually available. None of this speculate to accumulate nonsense.

Is it safe to assume that we weren't actually after Alderweireld or Quagliarella then? Because if 17th would have put us at 'profit neutral' again, due to bonus payouts, any additional signings in January would have put us at a financial loss? 

Of course, we'd be in a better position now with TV money, but it does seem to imply that we didn't keep a pot of money aside for the January window doesn't it? 

 

[GazzaTCC]

Is it safe to assume that we weren't actually after Alderweireld or Quagliarella then?

I don't think that it's logical to say that simply because they were just two potential targets during the summer window. When it became apparent that they weren't going to sign, we would have moved on to other targets.

 

[GJP]

Although I agree with ZLF on a lot of stuff I'm not sure I agree that the squad was strong enough.

The negative tactics didn't do us any favours but even if we were a bit more adventurous/attacking/creative in our play I don't think we had enough punch upfront.

 

[GazzaTCC]

Good enough or consistent enough? My view is the latter.

 

[bigfish]

Simply not good enough. Defensively we were poor (and to tell the truth remain so) and as has been pointed out bought two strikers who really didn't bring anything to the party. The board (and Hughton) thought that just by being organised we would get by and were proved wrong - but not by much, a home win against Villa or home draws against Villa and WBA would have done the trick. 

Hindsight is wonderful but we are not a club that can lose money every year without paying the consequences eventually. If we signed the one player to make that difference last year but staying up cost us the bonuses and the extra (£10m fee, £2.5m wages) that profit would be a big loss. We would be in the Prem by already disadvantaged. Today's opponents are a salutary lesson of where that leads.

 

[Canaryboy]

I don't think that it's logical to say that simply because they were just two potential targets during the summer window. When it became apparent that they weren't going to sign, we would have moved on to other targets.

Alderweireld was a centre back, don't think we signed any defenders, so that was a position which was left unfilled? I wouldn't saying I'm being illogical, merely completely speculative. 

It is possible that we signed Elmander on loan after giving up on Quagliarella, but you'd have thought there would be a substantial difference in cost between the two?

Although perhaps more arrivals would have seen additional departures. Becchio we turned down a loan offer for, so Quag in would perhaps have seen him move, or maybe even Wes, 

 

[eatonparkboy]

We must not lose sight that not too long ago we were in deep joy regarding our finances and luckily by owning the ground, probably avoided administration. We were rewarded after some good budgeting and decent performances on the pitch to rid ourselves of debt.

We now have pundits telling us, and probably quite obscenely correctly, that unless you have billionaire backers, you are not equipped for the Premier League. And noticing that the three teams promoted from the Championship last season are already in the bottom four and two of them with hefty minus goal differences, I am sure the polarisation of football will continue.

So I think it is pertinent to ask what NCFC supporters want.

Personally, I do not see the Prem as a necessity. Of course we all want the club to be playing the best, with the best we can afford, but definitely not at any price. I know many will see that as unambitious and boring but surely, the main support for this club just wants to see good, exciting and winning football played first and foremost and the status of the opposition secondly. I do not believe the majority want to see us risking financial ruination again just for the sake of seeing Liverpool et al at Carrow Road. And in consequence, getting beaten game after game.

A good win tonight and, perhaps briefly, we will be back on top of the table and we will all begin the weekend feeling much happier than the infrequent successes in the PL.

 

[The Great Mass Debater]

KK was a breath of fresh air when he came in and did give us another option. Cant help but feel for 2.5m he wouldnt have been a massive gamble. Even if he'd had just one superb game like he did against Everton that could have made the difference. Imagine if he'd given us one of those performances in the Cardiff game or the fateful West Brom game. One moment of magic can mean points, and with the margins so slender it does make you wonder.

I would argue against whoever it was who said we didnt know we needed an attacker in January. Grant Holt had scored more goals the previous season than our entire strikeforce combined, we couldnt make chances or put those we did away. Yes the defence was sloppy, but our overall record was skewed by big thumpings against the big boys. In games where points were actually achievable it was scoring goals that let us down.

The failure to sign a Quagliarella/Toivonen (and the consolation prize of Elmander) was repeatedly highlighted from the moment the window closed in Summer as the vital missing piece in Hughtons grand plan - the lynchpin whom without the whole system collapses, the missing catalyst which results in the failure to ignite.

If this player was seemingly so vital, why did we not sign one in January, when seemingly we had the cash, even to buy someone like Kris Commons or numerous other generally championship level players, not in the same league as the others but still capable of playing that role effectively.

Rumour was we were close to signing one on deadline day but it fell through as that club didnt get the player they wanted, think it was Aspas at Liverpool (though Sigurdsson and Rodwell were also rumoured). If we had the cash why not splurge?

 

[Jimmy smith]

To be fair, it's easy to look back and say that now that we've dropped out the league. On the 28th January last season we were in 12th, with Gary Hooper as our main striker in good form. Whilst another creative player/goalscorer in hindsight would've been a good addition, at the time it wasn't as obvious, and it was actually our defence that needed the most improving (we'd already conceded 5 to Liverpool, 7 to Manchester City, 4 to Manchester United) hence why Yobo was bought in.

On paper our squad after the summer transfer window looked very good, and some were even talking about us going for a Europa League place, I don't think that there's a lot more that the management team could've done in the summer transfer window. Yes, in hindsight we should've improved the squad more than we did in January, but again, that's easy to say now. 

It was completely obvious we lacked the firepower at the back end of January and we did nothing to sort that. We should have at least had a Kei Kamara type panic buy. It did enough for us the year before.

 

[Jimmy smith]

As for that £6m. How about the board spend it on a competent, mobile Centre Half to partner Turner then we can stop playing a right back there.