The long term plan.

[morty]

I believe the board has a long term plan (bear with me here)

I get what they are trying to do, regarding not chopping and changing the manager as soon as times get tough, its not proven to always improve things, and it just costs us money in compo. Obviously I realise there comes a tipping point where results mean the managers position is untenable, especially if he loses the dressing room, which we aren't actually sure of, though Jerome hinted at his hands being tied in the situation, implying we're just getting through the season until we can offload certain players.

I think we are really starting to bear fruit from our academy, only last night our U23's beat Newcastle away, surely a side that would consider themselves "bigger" than us.

The summer is going to be interesting, thats for sure.

 

[Number 9]

The plan so far has involved selling those young players, not playing them in the first team.

Very few exceptions to that over the years.

How old do young ones have to be before they get in the team? 

 

[GJP]

I don't buy it.

 

[Canaryboy]

Could be that they are waiting for a new Chief Executive before making a decision on Alex Neil, because presumably you would want him (or her, I guess) to have a lot of input into deciding who replaces him. 

I suspect we'll be looking to bring in a Moxey replacement by the time this season finishes, and that Alex Neil is effectively a caretaker manager at the minute and expecting not to be here beyond this season. 

And that scenario is fine with me. 

 

[Canaryboy]

I don't buy it.

Me neither to be honest, not enough evidence that there is much by way of joined up thinking at our club. 

 

[GJP]

Hints at a longer term plan is just lowering expectation in the short term and making excuses.

 

[hogesar]

Probably GJP. But there's nothing wrong with having a long term plan if you have someone proven at being able to progress a club long-term.

Alex Neil has taken us significantly backwards if anything. I like him, I think he speaks well and is certainly passionate towards his role at the club. Unfortunately it appears he cannot setup a team capable of defending regardless of who plays and what system. 

If the board decide to keep AN for the rebuilding job in the summer and it backfires - it'd almost make their position untenable.

 

[GJP]

Well yes, a long term plan is good if you have the right structure and the right people in post. 

Are the likes of Alex Neil and Ricky Martin going to take the club on?

Not a f*cking chance.

 

[Canaryboy]

Long term planning just translates into 'cop out for a failed season' to me. Just building whatever squad we needed to get out of this division this season would have made no difference to the development of any of our young players, because most are playing U23 football or out on loan anyway, and ultimately any who couldn't then force their way into the team in the league above are clearly not the new Craig Bellamy so aren't going to revolutionize us. 

Jose Mourinho only spends 2 or 3 seasons at each club but always seems to win stuff. He signed an ageing Drogba at Chelsea, an ageing Ibrahimovic at Man United. He decides his objective and then just signs the players he needs to meet that objective. 

All teams who get out of this division have a bunch of players that they just discard in the league above, but who served the purpose of helping them get there. Newcastle aren't going to play Daryl Murphy in the Premier League. 

I don't buy into any sort of long term plan, its just a convenient excuse. Alex Neil failed to build a squad capable of getting out of this league, because he doesn't really know what he is doing. That's my conclusion I'm afraid. 

 

[hogesar]

Well yes, a long term plan is good if you have the right structure and the right people in post. 

Are the likes of Alex Neil and Ricky Martin going to take the club on?

Not a f*cking chance.

I don't know about Ricky Martin personally, so can't really comment if he's a positive influence or not.

What I do know is if the board genuinely had this long term look that Morty's suggesting we:

1) Would have tried desperately to offload older players

2) Wouldn't have fought hard to keep players like Klose

3) Would have invested in young and upcoming central defenders some point in the last 3 seasons

 

[GJP]

3) Would have invested in young and upcoming central defenders some point in the last 3 seasons

Now come on, that's a bit unfair. Why would we need any of them when we've got Ryan Bennett? 

 

[It's Character Forming]

Probably GJP. But there's nothing wrong with having a long term plan if you have someone proven at being able to progress a club long-term.

Alex Neil has taken us significantly backwards if anything. I like him, I think he speaks well and is certainly passionate towards his role at the club. Unfortunately it appears he cannot setup a team capable of defending regardless of who plays and what system. 

If the board decide to keep AN for the rebuilding job in the summer and it backfires - it'd almost make their position untenable.

I'm impressed by your open mindedness Hog, that you can allow for the possibility they keep on AN over the summer and that not backfiring.

My feeling is that if there is a long term plan, there should be some visible sign of that plan , but if there is, I'm missing it completely. 

 

[morty]

I think the first thing we need to remember is that Delia and Michael aren't idiots. They have run a football club for over 20 years now, so people really need to stop portraying them as so. There has clearly been mistakes made regarding contracts in the last few years, oddly while Bowket and McNally were here, who are often held up as the only people who were capable of sensible decisions, and were seen by some to be papering over the cracks of Michael and Delia's ineptitude.

I am assuming that Alex Neil has sat down with the board, and outlined his plan for restructuring over the summer, including intended targets, the whole thing has been discussed, including financial viability, and deemed to be the right way forward.

Obviously we'll only know after the summer if the plan was good or not!

And whilst I do not think we never planned for promotion this season, it was probably viewed by those within the club as harder than some might think, tempered by issues with players we perhaps do not know about. Cameron Jerome's comments about the managers hands being tied were interesting....

 

[GJP]

Promotion was always going to be harder with AN incharge.

Nothing about last season suggested he was going to be able to turn things around.

Delia and Michael have been around the block enough times they should be able to judge the momentum. Unfortunately, just like AN's game management, they haven't read or reacted to the change in momentum.

 

[morty]

Promotion was always going to be harder with AN incharge.

Nothing about last season suggested he was going to be able to turn things around.

Delia and Michael have been around the block enough times they should be able to judge the momentum. Unfortunately, just like AN's game management, they haven't read or reacted to the change in momentum.

Why do you think that is? Sheer bloody mindedness? Contempt for the fans? Loss of marbles?

Like I said, and you pointed out, they aren't daft.

 

[GJP]

I'd say their intentions are honourable but misguided.

 

[ZLF]

It is inevitable that we are facing the largest squad churn that I can recall this summer.   And there is the real risk that those we want to keep will leave (eg howson, pinto as well as Dijks) as the rare ones to attract actual interest from real football clubs.  Whatever happens the players we get in will be of a lower standard than we currently have. 

As such the hope seems to be that AN can get less capable but hungrier younger players promoted.     Thats ambitious to say the least as getting a functioning team from new players is hard enough , let alone when the tactics demand a suicidal approach to throwing both full backs forward at the same time as 4 attackers and usually at least one of the so called defensive midfielders. 

Mind you its not that different from expecting a new manager to deliver the same result from the same player churn (I am convinced we HAVE to remove the stagnancy in the squad).   I suspect that Neil did well on a small budget for Hamilton is with them,  with a dirth of strong candidate they are playing safe.  

Its an optimistic view point but not an invalid opinion to take,  even if it is at odds to my own opinion.   Personally the only current name in the fray that may work is Monk (who will be at leeds if promoted anyway) with the remainder hardly inspiring - but I would look to follow Huddersfields approach and find the next Wagner,  such as torsten lieberknecht. 

 

[ZLF]

If AN stays we will have to 

• Rebuild the back 4Godfrey as a CB,  sign more agricultural CBs than we have, and ditch the rest - I would not keep one of the current batch.

[*]Stop pushing both full backs so far forward all the time at the same time,  some defensive discipline is needed otherwise the midfield gets over run.. 
[*]Start winning the midfield again - we simply have not competed often enough..

• Signing more robust midfielders (oliver norwood might be good)
• Find a formation that get the most from Howson,  he is not an attacking CM or a deep sitting one either, he is better out wide right than in those roles where others are better suited.  His best performance come in a the middle of the park box to box;  we dont play that way and AN wont go 442.   4141 would work with howson as one of the 4 behind the striker with maddison.
• sign a 3 striker,  nelson and jerome is good,  morris remains unsuccessful and 4th choice for now. 

[*]Recruitment is vast,  we need a new keeper, fullbacks, 3 centre backs to go with Godfrey,  two no nonsense defensive midfielders &  a more robust right midfielder (the right back has to have some cover that jacob / josh dont provide) and a striker.

 

[Canaryboy]

What this summer is really going to be about is cutting our cloth so that we can live within our diminishing means, which is what QPR have done (unfortunately they are 14th)

After our 'rebuild' in the summer, which in reality will be shedding as many high earners as possible and replacing them with cheaper players.

I'm not against it, many of those high earners don't deserve their status anymore. Bassong for example, pretty sure you could sign somebody better than him on a third of his wages. 

But lets not dress this up as some sort of revolution, its just the grim reality of being 12 months away from not being able to afford to service the wage bill if we don't go up again next season. 

I expect some surprises. One that I'm going to predict is John Ruddy being released. 

 

[ZLF]

Wrong decision for me but Neil will be the man to start our promotion chasing campaign next season.

The only positives are firstly the confirmation that 6-7 players will depart and the squad already know whether the club want them or not - (which,imo,  also confirms the club see this season as over) and secondly that the finances will cover the remaining squad without the need for forced sales.   Whether that means we need to sell to buy is another matter but at least it gives us some financial reassurance we dont HAVE to make a fire sale..

Will need a drink tonight and will come to terms with it I guess.