The politics thread.

[morty]

Why do you like Trump so much? Why do you like Putin so much?

Where have I said I like Putin? I like Trump because he annoys rabid lefties.

Hope that helps.

 

[lyb]

Where have I said I like Putin? I like Trump because he annoys rabid lefties.

Hope that helps.

If you think I'm a rabid leftie then that must put you somewhere to the right of Genghis Khan. I've even been called an RWNJ on occasion.

The real Buh said the same thing regarding support for Donald Trump. I'll admit that some of the more entrenched left-wingers on the Pink'un tempted me to think the same way on occasion, but I can't quite bring myself to tolerate a politician so obviously amoral and transactional.

Pushing the 'corrupt Zelensky' Putin talking point as an argument for sitting on our hands and letting Russia roll over a disarmed Ukraine means either you're quietly in Putin's corner or you just don't understand the stakes.

 

[Scoop]

I've even been called an RWNJ

I'd have just left it there

 

[Scoop]

 

[morty]

I'd have just left it there

Probably for the best...

 

[lyb]

I'd have just left it there

Scoop, you need to work on your comprehension skills. Apparently, Morty thinks I'm a leftie because I don't think Trump's the best thing since sliced bread.

 

[Sonyc]

Where have I said I like Putin? I like Trump because he annoys rabid lefties.

Hope that helps.

Oh...that probably puts me in a camp then of being a rabid leftie. I'm not a Trump fan and am centre / left of centre (biggest influences growing up politically were my grandad and especially my uncle... both used to be SW miners - so that may explain). As I've grown up I have tended to see their views on how the world works play out for real. They were both very mild mannered and tolerant people too. So that's my 'conditioning' if you like.

I hope I make room in my mind for all views. I don't hate anyone in life or any group of people. Good and bad in all. The Pinkun would have posters attacking you personally and I used to post less and less. It's not a good thing to think you're annoying someone else, just because of what you think. I often think you should just believe in what you do and be confident and self assured in that. The views of others are not important in the scheme of things. I reckon most of us want the same things. And when boiled down no-one likes extremists of any kind. It's a fear we all share.

Being one sided stops a conversation I think because someone is just labelled this or that. I wouldn't wish to annoy anyone either.

It's been a good breath of fresh air for me reading some non football posts again on a Norwich City forum and I will be a reader ahead on these pages. Cheers for that Morty.

A lot of people are major Trump supporters (millions the world over) for all sorts of reasons. He has galvanised a huge support and is influencing a lot of things....that he annoys the left and democrats I can see that (and understand it....wokeism for me has never attracted me...used to think it was pretty much pathetic in my working days.). Further, US politics is nothing but interesting at the moment. He might just do some good things and will watch and wait. And if he doesn't I won't be back to say so either ....just not that kind of bloke.

I'm not someone who should ever be posting much!

OTBC ...NMTD ... SONYC.....

 

[Scoop]

Scoop, you need to work on your comprehension skills.

The irony

It's all good LYB, I understood where you were coming from... eventually.

My point (which can sometimes be hard to convey in writing without coming over negatively) was that your posts were ambiguous as-to your exact stance, but you subsequently made it clear, so it's all good.

I don't necessarily agree with your position on Putin 100pc but hey, you've proved to be a controversial character on the Pinkun and you seem to revel in an argument so I wouldn't expect any different on here, at least you're consistent

 

[morty]

Scoop, you need to work on your comprehension skills. Apparently, Morty thinks I'm a leftie because I don't think Trump's the best thing since sliced bread.

Incorrect. I respect people's opinion if they respect mine. Debate is about listening too, not just spitting what you consider facts in people's faces, then branding people stupid if they don't agree with you.

I deal with arrogant, over opinionated people all the time on Twitter. They get back exactly what they bring to the debate.

 

[lyb]

Incorrect. I respect people's opinion if they respect mine. Debate is about listening too, not just spitting what you consider facts in people's faces, then branding people stupid if they don't agree with you.

I deal with arrogant, over opinionated people all the time on Twitter. They get back exactly what they bring to the debate.

Oh please. You dismiss seriously thought out arguments with flippant, lightweight memes alluding to shallow allegations of corruption while peppering everything with laughing emojis, which is a common response from lefties who don’t like what they hear but don’t have any good answers BTW. But on top of that, nobody other than people who’ve served in the armed forces are allowed any opinions if it might involve a deployment of British forces according to your world view.

Don’t talk to me about respect.

 

[morty]

Thank you for proving my point.

 

[Fen Canary]

Oh...that probably puts me in a camp then of being a rabid leftie. I'm not a Trump fan and am centre / left of centre (biggest influences growing up politically were my grandad and especially my uncle... both used to be SW miners - so that may explain). As I've grown up I have tended to see their views on how the world works play out for real. They were both very mild mannered and tolerant people too. So that's my 'conditioning' if you like.

I hope I make room in my mind for all views. I don't hate anyone in life or any group of people. Good and bad in all. The Pinkun would have posters attacking you personally and I used to post less and less. It's not a good thing to think you're annoying someone else, just because of what you think. I often think you should just believe in what you do and be confident and self assured in that. The views of others are not important in the scheme of things. I reckon most of us want the same things. And when boiled down no-one likes extremists of any kind. It's a fear we all share.

Being one sided stops a conversation I think because someone is just labelled this or that. I wouldn't wish to annoy anyone either.

It's been a good breath of fresh air for me reading some non football posts again on a Norwich City forum and I will be a reader ahead on these pages. Cheers for that Morty.

A lot of people are major Trump supporters (millions the world over) for all sorts of reasons. He has galvanised a huge support and is influencing a lot of things....that he annoys the left and democrats I can see that (and understand it....wokeism for me has never attracted me...used to think it was pretty much pathetic in my working days.). Further, US politics is nothing but interesting at the moment. He might just do some good things and will watch and wait. And if he doesn't I won't be back to say so either ....just not that kind of bloke.

I'm not someone who should ever be posting much!

OTBC ...NMTD ... SONYC.....

The problem with Trump is that there is often a nugget of a good idea, but it’s mixed in with so much nonsense that the whole things gets lost.
In terms of Ukraine, telling them that the US money can’t last forever and they’re going to have to (unfortunately) give up some territory is perfectly reasonable, but that has all been lost in him talking bollocks about Zelensky starting the war and being a dictator.
Likewise with the reforming the civil service. Any organisation that size, public and private sector, becomes bloated and inefficient over time, so periodically going through and cutting duplicate jobs and such is a good idea. Burning everything to ground and hoping something better replaces it, while frantically trying to reinstate those who were doing important roles looks amateurish and all a bit Year Zero.
I can see why people voted for him, he offered change and Harris was a truly awful candidate, however like with Johnson I’ve a feeling he’ll promise the earth and achieve very little, much like his first term. He’ll be a better campaigner than leader

 

[morty]

The problem with Trump is that there is often a nugget of a good idea, but it’s mixed in with so much nonsense that the whole things gets lost.
In terms of Ukraine, telling them that the US money can’t last forever and they’re going to have to (unfortunately) give up some territory is perfectly reasonable, but that has all been lost in him talking bollocks about Zelensky starting the war and being a dictator.
Likewise with the reforming the civil service. Any organisation that size, public and private sector, becomes bloated and inefficient over time, so periodically going through and cutting duplicate jobs and such is a good idea. Burning everything to ground and hoping something better replaces it, while frantically trying to reinstate those who were doing important roles looks amateurish and all a bit Year Zero.
I can see why people voted for him, he offered change and Harris was a truly awful candidate, however like with Johnson I’ve a feeling he’ll promise the earth and achieve very little, much like his first term. He’ll be a better campaigner than leader

His talking bollocks about Zelensky is clearly a bit of gamesmanship for the peace talks. Firmly siding with Zelensky really would not help, and helps set a more neutral atmosphere.

 

[Rock The Boat]

I think there is something very big about to go down and I think I may have figured it out. I was wondering why Trump was being so over friendly to the Saudis and Russians at the same time, even to the point of pushing Zelensky out in the cold. And it's all down to the next move in the Gaza hostage situation. From what I have been reading, there are a few more hostage releases expected in this agreement, and there will be 50 hostages still held, who will be released when Hamas and the Israelis agree on a final end to hostilities between them. Now if you look at the behaviour of the terrorists during the handover of the current batch of hostages, they don't really look like a group of people who are about to lay down their weapons. Strutting about on stage, looking very cocky, perhaps it was all part of the sick charade to hand over the wrong body of the mother of the two murdered babies, but how ever you look at it they don't look to be ready for peace with Israel. To be totally fair, Nethanyahu has not said anything remotely close to wanting to end hostilities either, and there would be many conditions laid down to get to that place.

So if there is no agreement on peace, it looks like the 50 hostages might be sacrificed as Israel goes all out to defeat the last remaining terrorists, and take out any civilians that stand in the way. I can imagine the civilians will be given an ultimatum to get out or be bombed along with the terrorists. This is why trump needs both the Saudis and the Russians onside. The Saudis will help to rehome the Palestinian civilians that leave, possibly homed in a third country. The Russians agree not to arm Hamas and stay out of the fight. Iran won't come to the Palestinian's rescue for fear of being bombed themselves. Which leaves a little mopping up of senior Hamas leaders in places like Qatar and UAE. Gaza becomes Palestinian-free and lots of people make big bucks in redevelopment with everybody getting a cut of the action.

In Ukraine the same, the Russians and Americans divide up the rare mineral deposits between them and install a compliant President agreeable to both sides. Iran is alone and without allies. China fears the Russian-US link up. Serious money is made. All wrapped up before spring is out.

 

[lyb]

I think there is something very big about to go down and I think I may have figured it out. I was wondering why Trump was being so over friendly to the Saudis and Russians at the same time, even to the point of pushing Zelensky out in the cold. And it's all down to the next move in the Gaza hostage situation. From what I have been reading, there are a few more hostage releases expected in this agreement, and there will be 50 hostages still held, who will be released when Hamas and the Israelis agree on a final end to hostilities between them. Now if you look at the behaviour of the terrorists during the handover of the current batch of hostages, they don't really look like a group of people who are about to lay down their weapons. Strutting about on stage, looking very cocky, perhaps it was all part of the sick charade to hand over the wrong body of the mother of the two murdered babies, but how ever you look at it they don't look to be ready for peace with Israel. To be totally fair, Nethanyahu has not said anything remotely close to wanting to end hostilities either, and there would be many conditions laid down to get to that place.

So if there is no agreement on peace, it looks like the 50 hostages might be sacrificed as Israel goes all out to defeat the last remaining terrorists, and take out any civilians that stand in the way. I can imagine the civilians will be given an ultimatum to get out or be bombed along with the terrorists. This is why trump needs both the Saudis and the Russians onside. The Saudis will help to rehome the Palestinian civilians that leave, possibly homed in a third country. The Russians agree not to arm Hamas and stay out of the fight. Iran won't come to the Palestinian's rescue for fear of being bombed themselves. Which leaves a little mopping up of senior Hamas leaders in places like Qatar and UAE. Gaza becomes Palestinian-free and lots of people make big bucks in redevelopment with everybody getting a cut of the action.

In Ukraine the same, the Russians and Americans divide up the rare mineral deposits between them and install a compliant President agreeable to both sides. Iran is alone and without allies. China fears the Russian-US link up. Serious money is made. All wrapped up before spring is out.
View attachment 1505

Ineresting theory, but thanks to Ukraine Russia has no arms to spare. The collapse of the Assad regime is thanks to Russia not having the spare resources to prop up Assad because they've tied everything up in Ukraine. If you want to guarantee Russian arms don't go to the Middle East, just keep supporting Ukraine.

The money argument against Ukrainian aid is a total red herring. The US has spent 70 billion dollars on Ukrainian aid since 2014, as per the US governments own fact sheet. In contrast, the second Iraq war at the lowest estimate was 750 billion dollars military expenditure. https://www.state.gov/bureau-of-pol...2025/01/u-s-security-cooperation-with-ukraine

Trump playing nice with the Saudis does make complete sense from the point of view of softening up the region for an Israeli action in Gaza though.

 

[Fen Canary]

I think there is something very big about to go down and I think I may have figured it out. I was wondering why Trump was being so over friendly to the Saudis and Russians at the same time, even to the point of pushing Zelensky out in the cold. And it's all down to the next move in the Gaza hostage situation. From what I have been reading, there are a few more hostage releases expected in this agreement, and there will be 50 hostages still held, who will be released when Hamas and the Israelis agree on a final end to hostilities between them. Now if you look at the behaviour of the terrorists during the handover of the current batch of hostages, they don't really look like a group of people who are about to lay down their weapons. Strutting about on stage, looking very cocky, perhaps it was all part of the sick charade to hand over the wrong body of the mother of the two murdered babies, but how ever you look at it they don't look to be ready for peace with Israel. To be totally fair, Nethanyahu has not said anything remotely close to wanting to end hostilities either, and there would be many conditions laid down to get to that place.

So if there is no agreement on peace, it looks like the 50 hostages might be sacrificed as Israel goes all out to defeat the last remaining terrorists, and take out any civilians that stand in the way. I can imagine the civilians will be given an ultimatum to get out or be bombed along with the terrorists. This is why trump needs both the Saudis and the Russians onside. The Saudis will help to rehome the Palestinian civilians that leave, possibly homed in a third country. The Russians agree not to arm Hamas and stay out of the fight. Iran won't come to the Palestinian's rescue for fear of being bombed themselves. Which leaves a little mopping up of senior Hamas leaders in places like Qatar and UAE. Gaza becomes Palestinian-free and lots of people make big bucks in redevelopment with everybody getting a cut of the action.

In Ukraine the same, the Russians and Americans divide up the rare mineral deposits between them and install a compliant President agreeable to both sides. Iran is alone and without allies. China fears the Russian-US link up. Serious money is made. All wrapped up before spring is out.
View attachment 1505

So it’s ethnic cleansing you’re proposing? Forcibly remove some people and brutally murder the rest?
Also despite the rather unedifying scenes during the handover, Hamas have released everybody they said they would. It’s Israel that have reneged on the deal and refused to hand over the latest tranche of Palestinians they agreed to. But they’re the good guys apparently…..

 

[morty]

Wait, you're siding with the guys who raped, murdered and kidnapped innocent women and children? Interesting. And implying Hamas have somehow behaved honourably?

 

[Fen Canary]

Wait, you're siding with the guys who raped, murdered and kidnapped innocent women and children? Interesting. And implying Hamas have somehow behaved honourably?

Where have I said that?
Hamas is a terrorist group but they’ve adhered to the terms of the ceasefire and released those they said they’d release, Israel hasn’t.
Don’t confuse my criticism of Israel as being supportive of Hamas. Both are absolute scum in my eyes, with neither side any better than the other

 

[lyb]

So it’s ethnic cleansing you’re proposing? Forcibly remove some people and brutally murder the rest?
Also despite the rather unedifying scenes during the handover, Hamas have released everybody they said they would. It’s Israel that have reneged on the deal and refused to hand over the latest tranche of Palestinians they agreed to. But they’re the good guys apparently…..

One detail missing in there is that one of the corpses of the Bibas family that Israel handed over in their hostage release festivities was not actually the corpse of the mother. Israel paused while Hamas got its act together finding the correct corpse.

Forensics revealed that mother and child had been strangled in captivity.

I'm really surprised Trump has sided with Israel. I honestly thought he'd feed Israel to the Middle Eastern dogs the way he's feeding Ukraine to the Russian dogs. Maybe Ivanka marrying a Jew played a part.

One other observation is I think terms like genocide and ethnic cleansing aren't going to be of much relevance in the new world order. If its expedient for the US, Russia, or China to see entire peoples killed, it will happen.

 

[morty]

Where have I said that?
Hamas is a terrorist group but they’ve adhered to the terms of the ceasefire and released those they said they’d release, Israel hasn’t.
Don’t confuse my criticism of Israel as being supportive of Hamas. Both are absolute scum in my eyes, with neither side any better than the other

Hamas does not deserve any credit whatsoever. They should not have kidnapped and killed women and children in the first place.