The Ricky Van Wolsfwinkel Thread

[The Great Mass Debater]

When do the players return for pre-season training?

Id imagine thats when Ricky's situation will really become a focal issue. He'll be training but everyone will want to know where he stands. Its all a little on the backburner whilst the players are on holiday.

Big call for Neil. He got Bassong right, and I for one hope he gives Ricky a clean slate

 

[KeiranShikari]

Don't imagine it'll be a huge issue. AN will take a look at him in training and if he wants to keep him you'd imagine we would. If not the club will look to sell/part exchange him.

Of course I'm sure a lot more will be made out of it in the press and on forums.

 

[Personal Trainer]

When do the players return for pre-season training?

Id imagine thats when Ricky's situation will really become a focal issue. He'll be training but everyone will want to know where he stands. Its all a little on the backburner whilst the players are on holiday.

Big call for Neil. He got Bassong right, and I for one hope he gives Ricky a clean slate

I think they start on July 1st

 

[Scott]

Rickaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

I think it would be beneficial if AN gave him a clean slate and had a look in training to see if hes up to the challenge.

 

[morty]

Rickaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

I think it would be beneficial if AN gave him a clean slate and had a look in training to see if hes up to the challenge.

He has no choice really, he is contracted to us, and I doubt we'd be able to offload him anywhere, apart from at a massive loss!

 

[Scott]

Yeah, it would definitely be a massive loss, not once has he proved his £8million worth, we won't likely even get £3 million for him... His only option really is to impress AN or see he career squander with the U21 team/ressies. Unless he goes back to Holland or portugal but doubt anyone would want him

 

[morty]

Yeah, it would definitely be a massive loss, not once has he proved his £8million worth, we won't likely even get £3 million for him... His only option really is to impress AN or see he career squander with the U21 team/ressies. Unless he goes back to Holland or portugal but doubt anyone would want him

I honestly think we would be lucky to get 3 million for him, based on his last two seasons.

 

[splutcho]

Well if anyone can get something out of him, it's Alex Neil.

 

[Scott]

I honestly think we would be lucky to get 3 million for him, based on his last two seasons.

I agree, if we do sell it will be at a huge loss, but I'd argue it's better to do it now if we want him off the wage bill than when we can't afford to let him go at a huge loss

 

[Gaffer]

I agree that he's been so poor over the past two seasons that nobody would pay 3 million. So why would we waste any more time with him? Another factor is the way he slunk away during our Championship year because it was beneath him but now he wants to reap the rewards of the efforts of the players who stayed and fought for the cause. That would be bad for team unity and morale. Just offload him for whatever we can get for him.

 

[morty]

I agree that he's been so poor over the past two seasons that nobody would pay 3 million. So why would we waste any more time with him? Another factor is the way he slunk away during our Championship year because it was beneath him but now he wants to reap the rewards of the efforts of the players who stayed and fought for the cause. That would be bad for team unity and morale. Just offload him for whatever we can get for him.

A reasonable point, I don't think anyone would really complain if we all just cut our losses on this one.

 

[Canaryboy]

Am I the only person who just really can't see Van Wolfswinkel being Neil's type of player? The bloke is too lightweight for this division and towards the end became very sulky / petulant. Just can't imagine Alex Neil fancying him at all. 

I think it was Bassong who said that Alex Neil would make the squad watch every single minute of every game on DVD, even making them watch one game several times, so we can guess that Alex Neil has watched a few DVDs of games featuring Van Wolfswinkel and I doubt he'd see much which would have impressed him.  

With Bassong he had a player who'd done the business in the Premier League for us before who everybody knew was out of the frame because of a silly fall out, rather than because he wasn't rated, and he would have walked in to colney and took one look at Hooiveld the donkey and Cuellar who's legs had gone, and instantly knew what he had to do. It was a complete no brainer. 

This situation is a little different because Van Wolfswinkel coming back in would mean having to sacrifice one of Jerome / Hooper / Grabban, all of whom have earned at least a shot at this division. Bringing in Van Wolfswinkel as one of four strikers means he can't really sign another striker unless he chops somebody who deserves a shot and has done the business for him (which team outside of the top 3 or 4 has five senior strikers in the squad?). 

As much as I think that Van Wolfswinkel has a bit more to offer than he showed for us under Hughton, I don't think he is anywhere near good enough to waltz back in at the expense of any of our current strikers, and I just cannot see Alex Neil giving him a chance unless he fails to bring any other strikers in. We've got Hooper who can player the poacher / false nine role which I guess Van Wolfswinkel is supposed to do, and I've just got a feeling that any striker brought in will offer us something different, either a big brick shithouse or somebody with lightning pace. 

My money would be on Van Wolfswinkel joining either St Etienne or Sporting Lisbon in a cut price deal, or going back out on loan for another year. I'm not even convinced that Van Wolfswinkel wants another chance here, it weren't long ago that he said he wanted to stay at St Etienne. 

I don't really see what Van Wolfswinkel has to offer which Hooper doesn't already, and even Hooper has had to spend a fair bit of time on the bench in the second tier. I didn't intend for this to become an essay, by the way! 

 

[KeiranShikari]

To be fair RVW was pants but he was pants playing a role he simply isn't built for or good at in a team lacking confidence and not creating him many chances. Before his injury you could see him looking alert and making runs but rarely being found.

I agree that even with two up top we're probably better off with Hooper. 

Hopefully we can offload/use him as part exchange as you'd think his wages would be towards the top if not at the top of our wage bill.

 

[The Great Mass Debater]

RvW had a number of very good efforts towards the end of the season which some outstanding saves stopped being goals, when ordinarily you would probably have expected them to go in. Forgetting about the team's fortunes for a moment, I wonder how we would view Ricky if just a few of those had gone in. If he'd scored 4 goals instead of one, would it change any opinions? I think for him to justify his price tag and role as 'an improvement on Holt' you would expect him to at least outscore Holt (so 8-9) and you'd probably want double figures

 

[morty]

RvW had a number of very good efforts towards the end of the season which some outstanding saves stopped being goals, when ordinarily you would probably have expected them to go in. Forgetting about the team's fortunes for a moment, I wonder how we would view Ricky if just a few of those had gone in. If he'd scored 4 goals instead of one, would it change any opinions? I think for him to justify his price tag and role as 'an improvement on Holt' you would expect him to at least outscore Holt (so 8-9) and you'd probably want double figures

He was never going to be Grant Holt, or be anything like him, and that was unfair of fans expecting him to be. And therein lies the issue, we needed another Grant Holt, not a Ricky.

 

[The Great Mass Debater]

He was never going to be Grant Holt, or be anything like him, and that was unfair of fans expecting him to be. And therein lies the issue, we needed another Grant Holt, not a Ricky.

Agreed, though my comparison with Holt was purely in terms of goals scored. Hughton's biggest mistake for me was not recognising how important a striker like Holt was for a team like Norwich, especially playing his way. The strikers he purchased were never going to flourish in his system. More than ever (if we were going to play Hughton's way) we needed a striker of his type.

Hughton replaced a work-horse with a race-horse and in doing so un-did his own system. His brand of football might have been effective (like it was during the famous unbeaten run) with a Holt-like player at the top. His biggest mistake was not buying a better Holt if he felt Holt was past it

 

[The Great Mass Debater]

I personally didnt see a lack of work-rate from RvW. Certainly when he first came in he was finding space and making runs, yet noone seemed to be trying to spot them or pick him out. As he got more and more frustrated he would drop a bit deeper and would often commit little niggly fouls. That didnt strike me as a player who didnt care, was happy to be anonymous or was lazy with a poor work-rate.

This was often a criticism by canary fans though, and I remember seeing something (think on Darren Huckerby's twitter) which might be apt:

"Hard-work defeats talent when talent does not work hard"

 

[It's Character Forming]

GMD's point about Hughton not realising he needed a Holt-type player and then buying the wrong sort of strikers for his system is absolutely right IMO. 

I think Hughton just didn't have a grasp of the striking end of the game, so he thought that RVW and Hooper and Elmander were quality strikers (which on paper they all were),so get them in and it's bound to be ok.  With £13.5m to spend we could have got a player with the same strengths as GH which allowed him to be effective up front on his own - tall, strong (and able to use that physicality to give problems for CBs),decent as a target for long balls and a decent goalscorer too, but none of them had those qualities. 

Now, thinking about the qualities needed to replace GH, who does that remind me of in our current squad...

 

[KeiranShikari]

To be fair we did try and sign that big Swedish bloke from PSV.

 

[The Great Mass Debater]

http://www.teamtalk.com/premier-league/9900159/Dani-Osvaldo-leaves-Southampton-two-years-early

I hope we wouldnt consider such a drastic solution. Becchio is one thing, RvW quite another