The wolf

[KeiranShikari]

Good first 30 mins from wolf. Got a shot on target and only tripped over his own feet/misplaced 5 yard passes/got completely outmuscled  a handful of times.

 

[KeiranShikari]

Ruddy's burgundy kit looking pretty classy though. They've really done well this year.

 

[Indy_Bones]

Good first 30 mins from wolf. Got a shot on target and only tripped over his own feet/misplaced 5 yard passes/got completely outmuscled  a handful of times.

Outmuscled? There's a shocker!

Maybe if AN wasn't asking him to play like Jerome then it wouldn't be as much of an issue. Let's also ignore that he hasn't played with these guys in at least a year, is in a relatively meaningless friendly that's about fitness more than anything, and that he STILL wasn't being provided with the sort of supply that his type of player thrives on.

Let's ignore all that, because he's not built like Grant Holt, doesn't suit a lone target man role, doesn't like a lone target man role, doesn't perform in a lone target man role, but is STILL constantly being asked to play it regardless.

Watch this space, as next week I hear AN is going to stick Bassong on the right wing and tell him to dribble past the defence at every chance he gets, and then we can all sit back and slate the crap out of him as he unsurprisingly proves to be utterly useless in that role as against where and how he should actually be played...

 

[eatonparkboy]

Outmuscled? There's a shocker!

Maybe if AN wasn't asking him to play like Jerome then it wouldn't be as much of an issue. Let's also ignore that he hasn't played with these guys in at least a year, is in a relatively meaningless friendly that's about fitness more than anything, and that he STILL wasn't being provided with the sort of supply that his type of player thrives on.

Let's ignore all that, because he's not built like Grant Holt, doesn't suit a lone target man role, doesn't like a lone target man role, doesn't perform in a lone target man role, but is STILL constantly being asked to play it regardless.

Watch this space, as next week I hear AN is going to stick Bassong on the right wing and tell him to dribble past the defence at every chance he gets, and then we can all sit back and slate the crap out of him as he unsurprisingly proves to be utterly useless in that role as against where and how he should actually be played...

Everything you say is correct.

However, that doesn't alter the fact that he isn't the man for us. Poachers have come to this club and dried up as the service has been mediocre at best. And I don't really see anything in AN's philosophy to suggest our tactic will be to pour forward at every opportunity and create countless chances for Johnny on the spot. He was brought in when Hughton felt brave enough to think of attacking in the Prem. That didn't last long of course and we will never really know whether RVW could have been the marquis signing.

He will be gone next season so loan him out again or even let him go on a free. The money was wasted and to try and hold out for some salvation from the whole sorry episode seems meaningless to me.

 

[KeiranShikari]

He was virtually playing alongside Naismith in that game. Certainly wasn't asked to play the same game as Jerome.

He's crap. Get over it.

 

[Indy_Bones]

He was virtually playing alongside Naismith in that game.

That's like saying that Holt used to play virtually alongside Wes...

RvW was clearly the furthest man forward, and no way was Naismith that far forward alongside him - well IMHO anyway.

And completely mis-using a player which then not only gives an unfair and incorrect view of their ability, but also can easily affect their confidence (as we know it did for RvW) doesn't make them a bad player, instead it reflects directly onto the manager and coaching staff who have allowed that to happen...

 

[morty]

Why do you think a manager would deliberately misuse a player Indy? Whats to be gained?

It makes no sense.

 

[GJP]

What is the right way to play RVW? 

All I ever see people say is that he needs low, quick crosses sent across the face of goal - to be tapped in. 

Well who wouldn't like that?

 

[Indy_Bones]

Why do you think a manager would deliberately misuse a player Indy? Whats to be gained?

It makes no sense.

That's the truly frustrating part for me Morty, there appears to be ZERO logic behind the whole thing!

Apparently Hughton had been watching RvW for some time (as had Man Utd and a few others), so there can be little to no misunderstanding over the type of player he was, and how we'd need to utilise him to get the best out of him, but instead what happened was like watching a car crash (well, that whole f**king season was a car crash).

I don't think that there's so far been anyone in football that's been unable to fully understand what's happened with regards to RvW and how we have managed to turn a very promising and massively on-form striker into a guy who was bereft of confidence, struggling massively for goals and being asked to do something that just didn't suit. Maybe we can have a forum quiz with answers on a postcard, with a prize to anyone who can work out WTF Hughton was thinking about (remember he killed the goal tallies of virtually every forward we played under him)!

 

[Indy_Bones]

What is the right way to play RVW? 

All I ever see people say is that he needs low, quick crosses sent across the face of goal - to be tapped in.

Well who wouldn't like that?

I'd have thought almost any striker would like that, but would they all be in the right place at the right time to make it happen.

RvW best suits 1 of 3 balls played towards him:

1) Low, across the area for a relative tap in (the classic goalpoacher finish a'la Muller/Lineker)
Something like this (ironically it's RvW with the pass to Castro for the goal as well!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4DNegIUQEo&t=2m57s

2) A well placed through ball for him to quickly get onto and sharply finish
Another Betis example here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=As1WhqtxmBI&t=0m13s

3) A good solid cross or ball over the top aimed squarely for him to get either a well angled header or a decent volley onto
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28--tpLnw78&t=0m51s  Header
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28--tpLnw78&t=2m7s  Volley

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0ZOgoin4VU&t=0m17s Half-Volley from ball over top

And during that key first season here, we gave him pretty much NONE of them...

 

[morty]

That's the truly frustrating part for me Morty, there appears to be ZERO logic behind the whole thing!

Apparently Hughton had been watching RvW for some time (as had Man Utd and a few others), so there can be little to no misunderstanding over the type of player he was, and how we'd need to utilise him to get the best out of him, but instead what happened was like watching a car crash (well, that whole f**king season was a car crash).

I don't think that there's so far been anyone in football that's been unable to fully understand what's happened with regards to RvW and how we have managed to turn a very promising and massively on-form striker into a guy who was bereft of confidence, struggling massively for goals and being asked to do something that just didn't suit. Maybe we can have a forum quiz with answers on a postcard, with a prize to anyone who can work out WTF Hughton was thinking about (remember he killed the goal tallies of virtually every forward we played under him)!

So its Hughton's fault then?

 

[Indy_Bones]

Lol, I suppose in many ways that IS what I'm saying

 

[morty]

Look, the long and skinny of it is that the standard of the leagues he played in before he came here, and in some ways while he has been out on loan, wasn't as good as the Premiership.

If it was Hughton that ruined him then he's had more than long enough to pull his big girl pants up, and get the hell over it.

Its just another story of a player not quite filling his expected potential. The only reason its even a story (for us, no one else cares) is that he was once our record signing.

 

[GJP]

Tbf Hughton was a better player than RVW. And he's also a better manager than RVW is a player. 

RVW has considerably more to prove than Hughton. 

As for the type of service he needs,  good forwards make things happen. RVW needs all the hard work done for him so he can do the easy bit. 

Perfectly weighted through balls and pin point crosses are a dream. 

 

[KeiranShikari]

Was he 'misused' in France and Spain too?

I do hope this shadow can leave our club this summer.

 

[Canaryboy]

I kinda bought into this whole "inverted wingers means inswinging crosses, terrible for strikers" thing.... just to excuse RVW. 

But there is no getting past the fact that Hooper scored 800% more goals than him in the same season in all competitions, with the same tactical handicaps.

No getting past the fact that even Johan Elmander scored 300% more goals than him in the same season.

No getting past the fact that he has scored just 7 league goals in 70 games, across 3 entire seasons, giving a strike rate which is probably about average for a mediocre centre midfielder. 

I get it, we all got excited by him. Record fee, good looking chap, nice bloke, Dutch International, it felt like we'd made a huge signing. Three years later and it is time to accept that what we actually purchased was a striker who simply isn't very good. It happens at all clubs.

Besides, even if he is capable of scraping into double figures this season as a squad player, I bet we'd all wince a little bit if we saw his pay cheque and I bet being stuck with him is a huge drain on the finances. That's why he's still here, obviously, nobody will cover his huge wages and he isn't going to write them off, neither is he going to submit a transfer request and lose 25% of his loyalty bonus. 

He's been a mistake. Its a shame for him, its a shame for us, but would anybody put money on him coming good now even in the Champs? He's always struck me as being a bit of a wimp. Yes that's not a nice thing to say, but I'm just saying what I see. This league is arguably more physical than the one above. Slower, but get away with stronger challenges. And just how committed is he going to be on the pitch towards the second half of the season, when he needs to keep himself in good nick to try and earn himself a deal as a free agent.

Lambert at Blackburn bemoaned the fact that the board weren't sorting out contracts and that his players had downed tools in the last few months to make sure they didn't get crocked before they joined the free agent list. Absolutely no prospect of getting a new deal here, so would expect Van Wolfswinkel to do exactly the same. 

 

[eatonparkboy]

He has put NCFC on the map though.

Everyone I talk football to in Cornwall asks how the Wolf is doing. Not Brady, not Redmond (we are behind the times here so they don't know he's gone).

No such thing as bad publicity.

 

[gerryinromania]

Such a shame that Chinese clubs can't be tempted by this superb football player

 

[Indy_Bones]

Was he 'misused' in France and Spain too?

I do hope this shadow can leave our club this summer.

In France - yes, was still beind asked to play as a target man, and St.Etienne focused most of their play through Gradel on the left rather than centrally (regardless if Erdinc or RvW was selected).

In Spain - not so much, but not being played because you're behind in the pecking order, with the club's star striker being a very similar type of striker (just quicker) and the guy who is keeping you out, is hardly RvW's fault either (Castro played more games and minutes than ANYONE else at Betis last season).

 

[Indy_Bones]

    As for the type of service he needs,  good forwards make things happen. RVW needs all the hard work done for him so he can do the easy bit. Perfectly weighted through balls and pin point crosses are a dream. 

So on that basis, ANY goal poacher in football history would appear to be *bleep* in your opinion because they simply tapped the ball in rather than 'making things happen'. The fact that they needed to time their runs, apply composure and technique for the finish and basically be in the right place when that ball was played across is apparently irrelevant, and seemingly any duffer from the local park can be a top goalpoacher by your utterly nonsensical logic.

So that's the likes of Gerd Muller, Hugo Sanchez, Robbie Fowler, Pippo Inzaghi, Davor Suker, Romario, Michael Owen, Raul, Ferenc Puskas and Gunner Nordahl all dismissed as utter shite because they had the temerity to be goal poachers rather than the 'complete forward' that is favoured in the modern game...seriously...what a crock of *bleep*.

What's more, I didn't see any of their club managers demanding they play as target men, giving them little to no supply, and then bemoaning their lack of performance, instead they played them to their strengths, got bucketloads of goals in return and their clubs benefitted massively from it - but apparently we'd rather just loan the guy out and call him a waste of money and a *bleep* player instead...no wonder I think modern football is going down the shitpan