Told you so

[Number 9]

I've been boring you for months on here about playing Moritz.
Loved watching him when he played last season but I was frustrated by Farke not selecting him and subsequently by watching us struggle to beat 'lesser' teams.
So here we are in the Premier League and we've been treated to a game and a half of Leitner. Obviously I know that there are 11 players on the pitch, but the magic happens when Mo plays.
Long way to go yet, I suspect we will continue to have our fair share of injuries too, let's hope Webber and Farke pick some gems for the first team in January.

 

[dj161]

I've been in the same boat as you, Leitner's control of the tempo and composure on the ball is second to none I've seen in a City shirt, needs to start every week in my opinion

stats from yesterday's game, Leitner 103 passes with 90% accuracy, also Pukki rated a perfect 10 and a 100% pass completion, nice

 

[Number 9]

I'm not blind to the prospect of losing games and finishing in the bottom half of the League, we simply don't have a deep enough squad to cover injuries etc.
Those teams in the top half of the Premier League have multi million pound international players on the bench.

The basic premise, which has very few exceptions, is that the more you pay your players, the higher up the League you'll be.

We bucked that last season and are likely to this season, but were not going to win the league.

However, when we can play like we did on Saturday, and at times last season, why would we choose to play McLean in the deep lying role when it's just going to be a struggle, with loss of confidence all over the park.

 

[SwindonCanary]

When Moritz played well last season, I kept saying to my daughter 'he's too good for us'

 

[OldRobert]

I'm not blind to the prospect of losing games and finishing in the bottom half of the League, we simply don't have a deep enough squad to cover injuries etc.
Those teams in the top half of the Premier League have multi million pound international players on the bench.

The basic premise, which has very few exceptions, is that the more you pay your players, the higher up the League you'll be.

We bucked that last season and are likely to this season, but were not going to win the league.

However, when we can play like we did on Saturday, and at times last season, why would we choose to play McLean in the deep lying role when it's just going to be a struggle, with loss of confidence all over the park.

I'm deeply shocked you don't think we'll win the league.

 

[Number 9]

I'm deeply shocked you don't think we'll win the league.

We're definitely going to need more players in January, wouldn't be surprised to see that french lad come in at 15 million or whatever the price was, and also a decent defender, weve seen how a couple of injuries decimated us.

 

[OldRobert]

We've certainly been unlucky with injuries.

 

[Fenway Frank]

I've been in the same boat as you, Leitner's control of the tempo and composure on the ball is second to none I've seen in a City shirt, needs to start every week in my opinion

Ian Crook

 

[Fenway Frank]

However, when we can play like we did on Saturday, and at times last season, why would we choose to play McLean in the deep lying role when it's just going to be a struggle, with loss of confidence all over the park.

Understand what you’re saying and I agree that Mo would play instead of McLean, but to suggest that there would be a loss of confidence across the park is being unfair to Kenny

 

[Number 9]

Understand what you’re saying and I agree that Mo would play instead of McLean, but to suggest that there would be a loss of confidence across the park is being unfair to Kenny

Not unfair, just statement of fact. Flip it the other way, when Mo plays in that position the other players feel good about the game because they trust him there and they're going to get good service etc.

I think it's unfair that Kenny has been played in a position where he doesn't excel, I'd love to see him play further forward for a run of games so we can get a true sense of his ability.
I don't know if he's on a par with Emi, Onel, Marco, Roberts, Vrancic or Todd time will tell, but that's the position he played in before coming to Norwich.

 

[Fenway Frank]

Sorry, you can’t say how the other players feel about Mo or Kenny unless they’ve told you. You’re suggesting that the players trust Mo but not Kenny

 

[Number 9]

Sorry, you can’t say how the other players feel about Mo or Kenny unless they’ve told you. You’re suggesting that the players trust Mo but not Kenny

Surely you've watched the games and seen the performances.
Its possible to watch again all the games from last season. Note how differently the team plays with Kenny or Mo, it's a huge difference.
Watch how they play, watch their body language, make your own mind up.

 

[Canaryboy]

Agree that we need to see a lot more of Leitner, it's a squad game at this level though... We need them both and he'll be in and out depending on the opposition.

 

[Number 9]

Agree that we need to see a lot more of Leitner, it's a squad game at this level though... We need them both and he'll be in and out depending on the opposition.

I agree with it being a squad game and teams will change at various times throughout the season generally.
Note that Farke didn't actually do this last season, he like Bielsa, played same team again and again (injuries excepting) until they were dead on their feet.
Did he learn from that? We don't know yet, time will tell.

As for the other elephant in the room, against which team would you like to drop Mo for McLean?
Bear in mind that he was tried many times last season against Championship teams and we struggled against them.
He was tried against European champions and we struggled against them.
It's not his position, I'm hoping that Farke will give him games just behind Pukki as an attacking midfielder, I believe that's where he is at his best.

I also hope that Amadou will prove to be a good alternative to Mo playing next to Trybull and Tettey.
He has a reputation as being good at passing so will be something that I personally will be looking for when he gets up to speed.
I think that those 3 are our best bet for that position, but that we need to target that position in January transfer window.

It's just my opinion, buy you'll be fooling yourself if you think that I'm ever wrong

 

[Canaryboy]

As for the other elephant in the room, against which team would you like to drop Mo for McLean?

That's not really the point I was making because one doesn't have to play at the expense of the other, but I watched Palace a few times last season and for what they lack in finesse and guile (which is a lot) they make up for in physicality, strength, height and aggression like Stoke under Tony Pulis, and personally I can't see that being an expansive game where we're going to have the opportunity to pass through them or have an acre of space to exploit behind their back four.... and that might be an example of a game where Cantwell and Leitner are much less effective at getting a grip on the game, and one where we'd need a bit more steel ourselves (step forward Ampadou to partner Trybull, or three centre backs and all in the box to attack corners!

Lambert rotated a lot more in this league than he did the one below, don't want to insult Farke by drawing comparisons to him, but I suspect Farke will too. Under Lambert we sometimes saw Fox, we sometimes saw Hoolahan, and occasionally we even saw them together.

With Hernandez out injured there's going to be minutes to be had at his end of the pitch too and Vrancic/McLean/Leitner all in contention for those minutes, it doesn't have to be the spot next to Trybull we're talking about here.... and that spots got competition from Tettey and Ampadou anyway, because Trybull can push up a bit as a box to box midfielder.

I think Leitner is our most talented midfield player, and that he should therefore be utilised more, but I simply don't believe that Farke will do what he did last season in being scared to change things up even after a victory.

Bear in mind that he was tried many times last season against Championship teams and we struggled against them.

McLean struggled? I don't think he did. He looked a bit out of place in our team at times, but he looked very much the required standard, scored and assisted important goals and was a permanent part of the 10 game unbeaten run? Think it was 10 games?

Every man in our squad is important, no idea how much football each will get. The team we finished with last season was completely different to the one that started, including Pukki not being our striker to start (played attacking right, Rhodes started as our front man).

Team could continue to evolve. The very fact that Farke was prepared to leave Leitner out last season shows that he is perfectly willing to do the same to a Jamal Lewis, or Emi Buendia, or a Tom Trybull if their form and the form of an alternative option gives reason.... or if he thinks it more suitable for a specific opponent.

McLean doesn't move for the pass enough for me, wouldn't be one of the first names on my team sheet very often, but he does offer something a bit different.... he's a bit more direct with his passing and can ping a decent long range ball, might come in useful now and again. That 50 yard pass which Buendia flicked down to Pukki for that goal last season.... that was McLean's pass. Leitner simply doesn't play those balls.

 

[Number 9]

That's not really the point I was making because one doesn't have to play at the expense of the other, but I watched Palace a few times last season and for what they lack in finesse and guile (which is a lot) they make up for in physicality, strength, height and aggression like Stoke under Tony Pulis, and personally I can't see that being an expansive game where we're going to have the opportunity to pass through them or have an acre of space to exploit behind their back four.... and that might be an example of a game where Cantwell and Leitner are much less effective at getting a grip on the game, and one where we'd need a bit more steel ourselves (step forward Ampadou to partner Trybull, or three centre backs and all in the box to attack corners!

Lambert rotated a lot more in this league than he did the one below, don't want to insult Farke by drawing comparisons to him, but I suspect Farke will too. Under Lambert we sometimes saw Fox, we sometimes saw Hoolahan, and occasionally we even saw them together.

With Hernandez out injured there's going to be minutes to be had at his end of the pitch too and Vrancic/McLean/Leitner all in contention for those minutes, it doesn't have to be the spot next to Trybull we're talking about here.... and that spots got competition from Tettey and Ampadou anyway, because Trybull can push up a bit as a box to box midfielder.

I think Leitner is our most talented midfield player, and that he should therefore be utilised more, but I simply don't believe that Farke will do what he did last season in being scared to change things up even after a victory.



McLean struggled? I don't think he did. He looked a bit out of place in our team at times, but he looked very much the required standard, scored and assisted important goals and was a permanent part of the 10 game unbeaten run? Think it was 10 games?

Every man in our squad is important, no idea how much football each will get. The team we finished with last season was completely different to the one that started, including Pukki not being our striker to start (played attacking right, Rhodes started as our front man).

Team could continue to evolve. The very fact that Farke was prepared to leave Leitner out last season shows that he is perfectly willing to do the same to a Jamal Lewis, or Emi Buendia, or a Tom Trybull if their form and the form of an alternative option gives reason.... or if he thinks it more suitable for a specific opponent.

McLean doesn't move for the pass enough for me, wouldn't be one of the first names on my team sheet very often, but he does offer something a bit different.... he's a bit more direct with his passing and can ping a decent long range ball, might come in useful now and again. That 50 yard pass which Buendia flicked down to Pukki for that goal last season.... that was McLean's pass. Leitner simply doesn't play those balls.

I agree with most of that,

1- Farke has tended to swap one for the other, Mo and McLean.
2- The team struggled against some teams we really ought to have beaten easily. What I mean by that is that during the unbeaten run we had many games where we relied on last gasp equalizer or winners. End to end games like basketball games without control of the ball.
Sometimes a lash ditch sliding tackle is evidence of something going wrong a bit further up the pitch.
3- Palace, I used to love watching Wes against teams like that, running rings around them, can't beat them physically so use the ball.