Webber interview.

[morty]

Good stuff.

 

[morty]

Interesting that he alludes to having had to get rid of players that had bad attitudes. Would love to know the dirt on who they are!

 

[Fenway Frank]

Oliveira would be my main guess with Russ Martin and Naismith as possibles

 

[Canaryboy]

Interesting that he alludes to having had to get rid of players that had bad attitudes. Would love to know the dirt on who they are!

And more interestingly.... implied that we're still stuck with some of them. Can only really think of Oliviera, Naismith and possibly Wildschut.

Wildschut is an odd one as Farke said that he's a good lad, but we've not exactly had enough wide options this season have we so there must be more to it. Probably just work ethic, I suppose you can be a very likeable and friendly lazy bastard.

 

[morty]

"I suppose you can be a very likeable and friendly lazy bastard."

I work with a few guys who have forged a career based on this!

 

[Timm Klose's Boat Analogy]

He's going to be a very sought-after man this summer I think, assuming that rival clubs look at our club's success/rejuvenation (and that of a few other clubs who've overachieved recently on a tight budget) and try to emulate it rather than just spend loads every transfer window and hope for the best.

 

[morty]

He's going to be a very sought-after man this summer I think, assuming that rival clubs look at our club's success/rejuvenation (and that of a few other clubs who've overachieved recently on a tight budget) and try to emulate it rather than just spend loads every transfer window and hope for the best.

Yes and no. I don't think you could just drop him into any club and it would work, it very much depends on the patience of the owners and the general situation. Despite the fact we were going to have to sell players we have strong season ticket numbers, weren't really in any debt, and we had good, saleable assets. And we were ripe for some kind of overall structure change, I think it all had to happen as a complete package, and I think he likely had to be given total control of all of it. So it may not just be that Webber was right for us, but also that the club was right for him.

As a for instance, I'm not so sure he could go to Ipswich and work the same magic.

 

[OldRobert]

^This. As for the bad attitudes, the worst you could never convince the other place, as they still think the sun shines out of his ar se. Nelson more a clash of personalities, let's face it you can't shove your shirt into the boss's face and expect no comeback. Naismith.............maybe but not to the extent of the nasty piece of work (no 1) who DF shipped out asap.

Btw Morty, you could stick Merlin in at 1pswich and it wouldn't do any good, let alone Webber.

 

[Canaryboy]

I don't think Russell Martin would be somebody that Webber is referring to. For a start.... he didn't make it difficult for us to get rid of him.

And Webber seemed to really like him, went with Webber as a club representative to a couple of football related functions whilst he was out of the first team picture I believe.

 

[OldRobert]

RM's nonsense started way before Webber arrived. You have to go back to at least the days of CH if not before. Believe me my source is impeccable. DF would never work with with an individual like that I'm sure, judging by his attitude towards the likes of Nelson. However you are, of course, entitled to your opinion.

 

[Fenway Frank]

Bearing in mind we’ve just been promoted it would be nice to see Webber smile, even if was just once !

 

[GJP]

We were always told about what a great guy RM is to have about the place.

But the togetherness and fighting spirit has gone off the scale since he's been out the picture.

 

[Canaryboy]

RM's nonsense started way before Webber arrived. You have to go back to at least the days of CH if not before. Believe me my source is impeccable. DF would never work with with an individual like that I'm sure, judging by his attitude towards the likes of Nelson. However you are, of course, entitled to your opinion.

I don't dispute that, I'm not a Russell Martin fan and you already know that because I said it a few weeks ago... that getting rid of Russell Martin was essential in helping us create the team spirit that we currently have.

What I'm saying is that the dig that Webber had in that interview is clearly not aimed at Russell Martin. Firstly, because he walked away 2 months into his extra year with a mutual termination which it was pretty clear didn't involve him taking much money (if any)..... and secondly, because the club seem more than happy to let him share Hoolahan's testimonial despite him not having been here the usual 10 years.

Last summer, with Martin already well out of the first team picture he accompanied Webber to London for some big FA event regarding homophobia. At the time he was still the club captain.

He was well past his best and probably not suited to the 'new way', but its pretty clear that Webber had no problem with him as a person.

Sporting Director Stuart Webber said: “We’ve been in discussion constantly over the summer and we felt this was best for all parties and especially in this case, for Russell.

“Once the window closes, he’s unable to then go out on loan to anyone so it was done to free him up to go and sign for someone else.

“For what he’s done for this club, it’s only right we did that for him. Russell will be sorely missed by staff and players and supporters. He’s been an unbelievable ambassador for what the club is all about.”

Contrast to what he was happy to say about Howson when he left....

My point is that whoever the players are that Webber is referring to in his dig..... I highly doubt he's counting Martin as among them.

 

[Canaryboy]

He said "I know what its like trying to get them out because I've just spent two years trying to do it".

(high profile players with a bad attitude).

He gave Russell Martin his contract extension, Martin probably took a pay cut. He then allowed Martin to leave on a free (after Martin requested it),praised Martin in the press, then granted Martin a testimonial game. Whilst out of the side Martin was praised for his work with the U23's and accompanied Webber on various events. So clearly he isn't referring to Russell Martin.

There are loads of people he could be referring to over that two years.... and they could include people like Bassong, Mulumbu and Lafferty who all left after he joined. Probably Oliviera and Wildschut from the current bunch. Probably Howson, who he didn't take too kindly too after he basically went on strike to force a move.

The Murphy twins, Josh in particular was called out publicly for lack of effort in training (and has just been called out again by Warnock for the same).

He may be referring to Naismith..... but lets live in the real world here, probably on £30k a week here and could earn about £5k at Hearts or in the MLS..... why is he ever going to walk away from that? He's not a Norwich fan. We wouldn't want to screw up our own club, Norwich City, but if I were a footballer playing for say Leeds United.... wouldn't be my problem that they gave me a ridiculous contract would it?

We aren't discussing whether Martin leaving was a good thing, I was getting seriously sick of the bloke and his delusions. We are discussing whether he was included in the group of people that Webber was slagging off.... and all evidence points to 'no'.

Cameron Jerome being sold mid-season when Oliviera was our only other striker looks suspect in hindsight, I wonder whether that was a purely financial decision? Obviously didn't fit the age profile, but summer would have made more sense, and that raises questions about whether he was deemed the right fit or not. We know for a fact that Jerome has been in the papers a couple of times for gambling related activities, in 2013 he got a big fine for breaching betting rules, and then in Norwich somebody who worked in a bookies was sacked for calling Jerome out for not tipping when he got a big win. So maybe there is something in that about 'culture'.

Loads of players he could be referring to.

 

[morty]

Russel Martin reminds me a bit of something somebody told me about Matt Jackson, seemingly lovely but actually a lot of the players really disliked him, as he was a bit of a Snitchy Mcbrownnose. Being a senior pro in a club and / or captain can be a tough gig, as you're meant to keep the manager informed about things. Wasn't there something where all the players went out somewhere and Russ grassed them up?

 

[Number 9]

Russel Martin reminds me a bit of something somebody told me about Matt Jackson, seemingly lovely but actually a lot of the players really disliked him, as he was a bit of a Snitchy Mcbrownnose. Being a senior pro in a club and / or captain can be a tough gig, as you're meant to keep the manager informed about things. Wasn't there something where all the players went out somewhere and Russ grassed them up?

One of the things which happened

 

[Canaryboy]

Russel Martin reminds me a bit of something somebody told me about Matt Jackson, seemingly lovely but actually a lot of the players really disliked him, as he was a bit of a Snitchy Mcbrownnose. Being a senior pro in a club and / or captain can be a tough gig, as you're meant to keep the manager informed about things. Wasn't there something where all the players went out somewhere and Russ grassed them up?

If there was a divided dressing room though, because successive managers had not succeeded in building the right culture / dynamic / mix, then we'd need to know whether Russell Martin was on the 'right' or 'wrong' side of that split.

He seems to be popular with the right people.

E.g. if he was unpopular with Bassong, Mulumbu and Lafferty..... then he's probably on the side of the people who gave a fuck.

I think the only real problem with him is that he was very influential but ended up not having the ability to match, seemed in denial about his decline for a bit.... and then signed for Walsall, so finally 'got it'.

I reckon Farke bombed him out primarily because he just wasn't good enough personally. Even if he wasn't slow, rubbish in the air, and had decent defensive positioning.... he still wasn't good enough with his feet to play in a Farke team. Was a bit bizarre that we gave him that contract extension.

If we did have a 'player power' problem then he was probably part of it, but I still don't think Webber disliked him or had means to call him out, he's talking about other people. Martin could have sat around doing nothing for his pay cheque, could even have done that whilst running his mouth off and causing problems... he didn't, they shook hands and he went on his way. Fair enough.

I fully believe rumours of him going to the board to get Hughton sacked etc, as I said I don't particularly like him... just don't think Webber counts him as being in the group that he was taking aim at in that video.

 

[morty]

Oh yeah, I'm not demonising him totally, I think most people's issue is that he was way past his sell by date, but still seemed to be getting kept around. And you're right about the two sides to player power, senior pro's or players who have been around the club a long time will have a strong opinion as to how they think things should be done, and it very much depends on the management as to how far they are let to run with that.

And it is also quite easy to see that they may be resistant to change, which spins nicely back to my Hoolahan / Martin / Naismith rumour, which I can totally see happening. And I can totally see Webber having absolutely none of it. I guess we'll never know, maybe Webber didn't want to dig him out publicly as he knew that he was still popular with a lot of people, or maybe it was part of a much bigger issue that he didn't particularly want to be made public, maybe the whole dressing room was a lot more toxic than we realised. I know that we needed to move players on and re-invent ourselves, but the sheer numbers that left, maybe tell a story.

 

[Canaryboy]

maybe the whole dressing room was a lot more toxic than we realised.

This I should imagine.

And what if senior pros had no choice but to become the 'bad guys' trying to install some order into proceedings due to weak and ineffectual management? Did Alex Neil have the experience to manage the big egos? Is there a good reason why he has done better at smaller clubs and decided to dodge the West Brom job where he'd inherit a bunch of 30+ year olds still dining out on past success? That West Brom job very similar to the one he came into here, they've got an ageing squad full of declining big names on big money and probably an influential 'spine' like the one we had here.

That's the thing isn't it.... buck has to stop at the management if the squad is in dissaray and contains too many twats and too much indiscipline. Can totally imagine the likes of Wes and Martin being in despair at players who couldn't be fucked to train for example, Wes in particular allegedly a machine in training.

Just this week we've got articles about Lafferty being finished at Rangers because Gerrard doesn't like his attitude and Josh Murphy being left out of the Cardiff squad because he was lazy in training (which Farke called him out for last season). Nobody seemed to want to touch Bassong with a barge pole when he left us.

My hunch is that Martin was probably on the 'good side' with the pros who were frustrated because they wanted the club to get back to the Premier League and saw colleagues around them who didn't give a fuck and were more interested in the pay day. I should imagine the Man Utd dressing room has been similar in the past few years.

And I reckon Webber recognised this and that's why he gave Martin the contract. The problem is that he just wasn't good enough to gain the respect of new players and loss of pride and dignity probably followed.

I got really tired of his voice, but worth noting that we probably only heard that voice a lot because he was one of the few willing to get in front of the camera after a poor result.

I'm happy to just accept that he was one of the good guys, then things just got a bit awkward when fans realised his decline about a year before he did. Give him a clap on Monday, good luck for the future.... glad you are in the past.

I sensed that things were a bit toxic when we found out that Howson was desperate to take a sideways step, was a bit odd at the time, as was his reasons (got about 50 years to go fishing and hunting mate, and the great John Wilson based himself in Norwich for the fishing, can't remember reading about a Pheasant shortage in Norfolk either!) Webber didn't like the way he went about things.... but I just found it odd that a good pro like Howson was so desperate to leave that he basically downed tools. Nobody expected that of him.

So yeah... really toxic I think. Probably went beyond the playing squad.... we got a video of a drunk John Ruddy uppercutting somebody on Tombland, and reports of David McNally getting into scraps down Prince of Wales Road in the couple of years before Webber arrived!

Huckerby left just after Webber called out a lack of discipline in the U18 squad also didn't he (have to admit, can't actually imagine Huckerby being the slightest bit strict about anything to be honest).

 

[Canaryboy]

Johnny Howson apparently has a ridiculous number of brothers by the way, 7 or something, and a work colleague of mine turned up to a 5 a side game to find that they were facing a team full of Howson brothers who all look exactly like Johnny Howson.

Fortunately for him they weren't blessed with his footballing ability