When did all our players suddenly become world class

[Paul Handscombe]

I have found it more and more frustrating reading post on here and the pinkun where as soon as one of our players is sold or an offer come in for him, he is the best player since time began.

RVW

Snodgrass

Fer

Redmond

Tettey

Pilkington

to name just a few, these players (especially the first 5) were one of the main reasons we got relegated.

Now offers have come in it's "we can't sell them unless it's for £10m plus"  "Blame the board or manager if we let him go" and my favourite "he is a phenomenal player"

These players were average at best in the Premier League, ok they might have played better in championship but if Sunday was anything to go by I doubt it.

We have to face up to reality we are not a massive club, we don't have players worth £10m plus and the sooner we come to terms with this instead of this nonsense the better we will be.

 

[Canaryboy]

I think most people would apportion blame a little differently. I would, for example, place much of the blame on the following two parties:

• Hughton - Drab one dimension football with no tactical diversity, a complete lack of bottle, and a negativity which spread through our club and fanbase like the ebola virus.
• The Board - For not realising the above when most of the fans did and doing something (anything) to try and stop the spread of the virus. 

Criticism of Snodgrass is also harsh, he won the player of the year award because he worked his socks off all season, and although he wasn't very effective in the first half of the season, he scored some important goals in the second half.... don't think he could have done anything more, and he deserves to stay in the Premier League. 

 

[Jimmy smith]

Well average premiership players (Long) cost £12m and i'd class most of the above as average premiership players so...

RVW clearly isn't one that you can trust to deliver like Long, so half his worth as there's still potential.

Snoddy was a fair fee

Fer is as you'd put it an "average premier league midfielder" but he's 24 and has potential. For me it has to be an 8 figure fee at least.

Pilks isn't his old self and i'd say a couple of million (ideally not to a rival) is fair for him with 1 year left and out of favour.

Redmond is a talented 20 year old who has played a lot of games. He's far from the finished article but if he ever gets near that he'd be a £20m player perhaps more, easily (look at fees for Zaha, Young, even David Bentley ffs!). He might still fail to an extent and only really be consistent enough for a championship side meaning at worst he'll be a £2m player. In that respect I'd be prepared to gable keeping Redmond as he could be a key player for us getting back to the prem. If someone wants to pay us £10m to take the gamble on him and he wants to go then fair enough, but no less than that. There has to be a premium as he's young and English. look at Luke Shaw, he's played about 20 senior games and he's a £30m player and he's not miles ahead of Redmond really!

Tettey is good but is unreliable fitness wise. He'd be a suitable squad player for most premiership sides but no more. I'd value him at £2m due to his fitness worries and i don't think he's got long left on his contract.

 

[Jimmy smith]

Criticism of Snodgrass is also harsh, he won the player of the year award because he worked his socks off all season, and although he wasn't very effective in the first half of the season, he scored some important goals in the second half.... don't think he could have done anything more, and he deserves to stay in the Premier League. 

The thing about Snodgrass is that the strikers we signed weren't compatible with him and his style. We needed a Grabban style striker with the pace and work rate to work alongside Snoddy, covering him with the pace and terrorising defences with their combined work rate. At the far post we needed Grant Holt the second or an even more direct striker with the main ability his heading and hold up play. Snoddy's crosses were usually hopefully lofted into the box only for our strikers to lose the aerial battle.

 

[Canaryboy]

He will enjoy playing with Jelavic. 

 

[Brighton Yellow]

Criticism of Snodgrass is also harsh, he won the player of the year award because he worked his socks off all season - Correct on the basis only that his season started in mid March. His hardest efforts before then were reserved for extra special efforts in moaning.

 

[Jimmy smith]

He will enjoy playing with Jelavic. 

Precisely, as he would have enjoyed Long as well but i'm sure they'll find someone decent enough for £12m!

 

[Canaryboy]

We have to face up to reality we are not a massive club, we don't have players worth £10m plus and the sooner we come to terms with this instead of this nonsense the better we will be.

On this point Paul, look at transfer fees in general at the moment. Borini almost went for £14m, Long for £12m, Snodgrass £7m, McCormack £11m.

Those are the prices that we will have to be paying for players of similar quality if we go back up.

So whilst taking £5m for Leroy Fer might seem like good business to you right now, it won't if we did manage to go back up and find that buying players of similar quality is going to cost us £10m.

The board is doing the right thing in holding out for as much as they can, because if (as we all hope) our stay in the Championship is a short one - we are going to need to spend similar money replacing them.

There aren't many obvious talents in League One or playing for the small Championship sides either. There aren't dozens of Elliott Bennett's and Anthony Pilkington's sitting around in League One waiting for a big club to buy them. David Mooney and Cody McDonald were up there in the top scorer charts, it isn't as easy as selling a player and replacing them with an upcoming talent (although we missed a trick in Adeyemi for £1m). 

 

[Paul Handscombe]

Canaryboy I totally agree from a business perspective we hold out for as much as we can get and the more the better, I'm more stunned at how over the space of 3 months views on these players have gone 180.

If you asked people at end of last season what their opinions were on the above they would be very different to now, and I don't understand why

 

[Canaryboy]

Because people appreciate that our squad possessed enough talent, but wasn't led by the right people? Snodgrass won the player of the season award? Can remember people saying how much we missed Tettey and Fer too when they were out too?

Of all those players the only one with an obviously poor attitude, for one reason or another, was Pilkington. Can criticise performances and decision making of the others at times but people like Tettey and Snodgrass always gave 100% effort. 

Tettey last season looked a much better player than he did the season before, would be a huge loss if we sold him this summer, and the alternative is Bradley Johnson? The Wolves game was crying out for Tettey from the start. 

 

[CJRV2014]

Where did anyone say they were world class ?

 

[Yellow Fever]

I think it might amount to 'better than the players replacing them' (if any do replace them).

 

[splutcho]

Nobody has said any of our players are world class. At all. Just doesn't make any sense to sell them for far less than we can get for them.

 

[ZLF]

We have not  (yet) let many players leave so its much a hullaballoo about nowt, and I am not sure that there are many saying they are world class.  #

However on the flip side are other side really only interested in buying our rubbish and leaving us with a quality squad?  Where is the interest in them?

 

[skijumptoes]

Problem we have is that so many are indeed potentially top players, but we've not seen them given the chance to fully flourish. Selling them like this when their stock is low is what causes the outcry. I wouldn't invest in stock and then sell when it's low, I would rather ride it out if I was in the position financially.

Wish may I add we were told we were!

 

[The Great Mass Debater]

I think most people would apportion blame a little differently. I would, for example, place much of the blame on the following two parties:

• Hughton - Drab one dimension football with no tactical diversity, a complete lack of bottle, and a negativity which spread through our club and fanbase like the ebola virus.
• The Board - For not realising the above when most of the fans did and doing something (anything) to try and stop the spread of the virus. 

Criticism of Snodgrass is also harsh, he won the player of the year award because he worked his socks off all season, and although he wasn't very effective in the first half of the season, he scored some important goals in the second half.... don't think he could have done anything more, and he deserves to stay in the Premier League. 

I would personally disagree with you here. I dont think any of the players can say they 'deserve' to stay in the Premiership. The whole concept of relegation is a reordering of the league system based on quality. Stronger teams are promoted and given tougher opposition. Weaker teams, who have proved they cannot cut it at that level get their opposition weakened. Football is a team sport and the whole team spent a season proving they were not good enough. I really dont like the egos that surface when a team goes down, the distancing that goes on, like when RvW's agen came out and said 'the championship is not where Ricky plays' - as if his poor performances had absolutely nothing to do with why the club had dropped a league and as if he had not spent a season proving the opposite. Relegation is designed to return players to a level more suitable for them. When you're part of a relegated team its quite audacious to put on airs and graces.

Snodgrass had a decent individual contribution, and noone would doubt his work-rate. But the truth is he was one of the most influential players last season when it came to how things panned out on the pitch. And for the most part, our method of attacking was completely ineffective. Despite his goals, Snodgrass was directly responsible for a lot of the ineffective attacking. he is what he is and you get what you get. Those who think he's great seem to focus only on what you do get from him, and not what you dont get. I think Snodgrass is one of the major reasons we got relegated. Its not his fault, its the managers for employing those tactics. Snodgrass has a lot of qualities, but he was used incorrectly in my opinion. He would have been far more useful as a number 10 or in the hole, where his one/wrong-footedness wouldnt have affected the effectiveness of the crossing from width, and his lack of pace wouldnt have slowed attacks down. Making everything go through Snodrass, and then playing him on the right was a major factor in our attacking ineffectiveness. Snodgrass is a useful player, but I dont think he is Premier League quality in a wing position. He'd have been far more useful centrally, with a conventional and quick winger on the right. What a shame we didnt have one of those.... ahem

 

[Leedscanary]

Excellent post Mass Debater

 

[skijumptoes]

Mass debater, great post, however *winks*... What if us and palace had the exact same squad but we had Pulis come in at the time they did, and they had Hughton in exchange?

I would argue that they would be in our position and us looking forward to another season of investment into our squad.

Also, what about if we held on to Gunn and never sought out Lamberts services?

I think you're unfairly marking players ability based on them playing a specific role and mentality for the team.

Ricky is a fine example, he had very little service and was isolated up top for majority of the season, before joining he was asked the question back home regarding playing on his own and he made it clear that it wasn't his game.

Basically we were happy to sell shirts with his face splattered around club shop, but seemingly not happy to actually utilise him on the field and build around him, if the club genuinely believed he was the face of us moving forward why was this not replicated on the pitch?!

We destroyed the guy.

 

[The Great Mass Debater]

Mass debater, great post, however *winks*... What if us and palace had the exact same squad but we had Pulis come in at the time they did, and they had Hughton in exchange?

I would argue that they would be in our position and us looking forward to another season of investment into our squad.

Also, what about if we held on to Gunn and never sought out Lamberts services?

I think you're unfairly marking players ability based on them playing a specific role and mentality for the team.

Ricky is a fine example, he had very little service and was isolated up top for majority of the season, before joining he was asked the question back home regarding playing on his own and he made it clear that it wasn't his game.

Basically we were happy to sell shirts with his face splattered around club shop, but seemingly not happy to actually utilise him on the field and build around him, if the club genuinely believed he was the face of us moving forward why was this not replicated on the pitch?!

We destroyed the guy.

Couldnt agree more. A bad workman blames his tools. Hughton easily had the right tools for the job. If you need a wall plastering, buy in all the necessary materials, but then let the village idiot do the job, you cant be surprised when it ends up looking like a dogs dinner

 

[skijumptoes]

We got the village idiots (plural)

I know it's been said a million times before, but replace Calderwood with a strong attack minded assistant and I think we'd have been ok. It's just so unfortunate how things panned out.

Biggest disappointment now is that none of us really know what system is best, who has quality in the squad, who's a prima donna and who were merely disillusioned with how things were managed.

I'm more confused than ever after Sunday, but have a strong belief in Adams, he just needs time to get through this transfer window. But after that I don't think he has long to get things right judging by supporter reactions.

Ipswich match is gonna be huge that's for sure!