With regret

[eatonparkboy]

I was neutral over the appointment of NA. Nobody could have known whether he was capable or not. He got through the interview with flying colours obviously, and I don't for a minute think he got it on price. They are business people running the club and like it or not probably have a lot more business acumen than us  and wouldn't have sold the appointment short for money alone.

We did start the season well if not necessarily impressively at times. And apart from the die hard haters, he was given enough praise for his initial achievement. Now some of those same people are not sure. I dismiss the kick him out brigade as awkward or angry. And those who aren't sure seem to be delving, as we all have, into tactics, systems, personnel etc.

But I have been thinking that just maybe NA is good when the going is good but may not have the nous or motivational skills to raise the team and get individuals to play better. Adam Drury said on Canaryworld that NA could raise the roof when needed. I don't think that is necessarily the answer. Shouting and bollocking is for the armed services and rugby players at times but only works in football for an instant.

By all accounts Redmond's delivery on Tuesday was appalling. As a decent winger who could swing in a telling cross, surely NA need do little else than impart a bit of his technique and attitude to just calm down a lad who, to me, has endeavour and talent but gets too excited at times and lets it slip away from him. But he has been playing like that nearly all season so I don't really know if NA has the capability to put things right. He needs to be a father figure and a shrewd technician but also a mentor and I don not know if he has that in his armoury.

 

[gerryinromania]

I think that part of the problem,is that there is no Mr.Motivator out on the pitch.Snoddy, for all his perceived failures, did at least try to gee the team up when they were struggling

 

[SussexYellow]

I think that part of the problem,is that there is no Mr.Motivator out on the pitch.Snoddy, for all his perceived failures, did at least try to gee the team up when they were struggling

Step up Cam Jerome. Think he is our best shot at Mr Motivator. Russ does not appear to be able to do it. Possibly it should be Jonny Howson given he was captain of Leeds whilst still in the womb but it really does not look like it is his thing.

 

[Yellow Fever]

My regret is coming more and more to my becoming involved with message boards at all. I thought this one might be different, but as soon as there is one hugely disappointing result it descends into the the same pathetic knee-jerk reactions as the Pink'un board or Not606. Adams chose the right line-up for Boro, IMO, (though the arguments will go on about Martin at CB), but the players let him down against a Boro team playing very well. It happens but talk about sacking Adams and the entire Board is just pathetic in the extreme. Wiz has now emerged on here in his Pink'un persona and people are applauding him for it. Perhaps I knew all along that a serious discussion board couldn't last. Sad, but true, I'm afraid.

 

[SussexYellow]

Oh come on Rick. This board has not degenerated into multiple sack Adams threads.

The debate, even on this thread, is mixed. No bad thing. Be fairly boring if we all agreed.

We all want success for NCFC and instantly, quite understandably. So is it really that surprising when disappointment emerges on boards, even when it could be considered unreasonable. Perhaps it is cathartic for some.

 

[SussexYellow]

Also think it is harsh to attack Wiz who has not emeged in his Pink Un persona. Far from it.

 

[splutcho]

My regret is coming more and more to my becoming involved with message boards at all. I thought this one might be different, but as soon as there is one hugely disappointing result it descends into the the same pathetic knee-jerk reactions as the Pink'un board or Not606. Adams chose the right line-up for Boro, IMO, (though the arguments will go on about Martin at CB), but the players let him down against a Boro team playing very well. It happens but talk about sacking Adams and the entire Board is just pathetic in the extreme. Wiz has now emerged on here in his Pink'un persona and people are applauding him for it. Perhaps I knew all along that a serious discussion board couldn't last. Sad, but true, I'm afraid.

Sorry matey, that's nonsense. Differing opinions are fine, and without them there is no point in a forum. Name calling as shown by you here is what's not needed. As for Wiz, I've seen nothing to suggest he's back to his old ways. I've certainly seen none of the hate and vitriol towards Adams and the board as seen in other places. There's nothing wrong with wanting a change of manager.

 

[Canaryboy]

My regret is coming more and more to my becoming involved with message boards at all. I thought this one might be different, but as soon as there is one hugely disappointing result it descends into the the same pathetic knee-jerk reactions as the Pink'un board or Not606. Adams chose the right line-up for Boro, IMO, (though the arguments will go on about Martin at CB), but the players let him down against a Boro team playing very well. It happens but talk about sacking Adams and the entire Board is just pathetic in the extreme. Wiz has now emerged on here in his Pink'un persona and people are applauding him for it. Perhaps I knew all along that a serious discussion board couldn't last. Sad, but true, I'm afraid.

On come on mate, that's hyperbole. One person liked a post by Wiz, and one poster has suggested the board be sacked. Your Utopian vision of what a Norwich forum should be like sounds like one where independent thought is censored and we all have to share the same opinions. In fact, that is an accusation thrown at this forum in the past (that people are only allowed to be positive), so we can never keep all of the people happy all of the time (just some of the people, some of the time?). What do you want me to do when somebody has a groan exactly? Ban them?  

Should we have a 'Happy Forum' and a 'Moan Forum' to segregate supporters by mood? 

Just to hold myself up as one example, I've had the same opinions about the left wing situation and the Martin/Whittaker thing for the entire season, and can back that up with links. That opinion didn't emerge the moment that we conceded the fourth goal away to Boro (a game that I didn't even watch, like most people), but it isn't just one disappointing result. We are in terrible form and need to buck our ideas up quick if we are to have any chance of getting out of this division, which is what all of us want. 

I've certainly not suggested Adams be sacked (although I did point out that this was partly due to a lack of inspiring candidates, Simon Grayson was the only one I could think of), but I am feeling a bit cheesed off that Tom Ince has just signed for Forest on loan and Elliott Bennett just had a great game for Brighton whilst we are so short of wide players. It is also completely fair for people to point out that Adams has signed three centre backs and then determined that none of them is good enough to justify dropping Whittaker or Martin, which is in itself a damning indictment on Adams transfer business by the man himself! 

And it is natural that the criticism is directed at the manager when the team isn't functioning as it should, it is his jobs to build a team and get the performing. If it weren't, there be no point in him having a job. It is a high pressure job and being able to deal with and respond to pressure is something that any football manager needs to be able to do to cut the mustard. 

Football forums are always going to be polarised and highly emotive places, and football fans will always be fickle. I don't know many who aren't fickle, I certainly am. 

 

[Canaryboy]

I can think of a few positives if that helps, I think that Cameron Jerome is the best all round striker we've had since Grant Holt and will become a Norwich legend. That's the biggest positive for me. 

 

[splutcho]

As a positive, if I must, we still have one of the best squads in the league, and we still have time to turn it around and finish top 2.

 

[Surgeryman]

My regret is coming more and more to my becoming involved with message boards at all. I thought this one might be different, but as soon as there is one hugely disappointing result it descends into the the same pathetic knee-jerk reactions as the Pink'un board or Not606. Adams chose the right line-up for Boro, IMO, (though the arguments will go on about Martin at CB), but the players let him down against a Boro team playing very well. It happens but talk about sacking Adams and the entire Board is just pathetic in the extreme. Wiz has now emerged on here in his Pink'un persona and people are applauding him for it. Perhaps I knew all along that a serious discussion board couldn't last. Sad, but true, I'm afraid.

Sorry Yellow, respect your opinion on here and on other boards, but for me this thread is very balanced around the subject. No really aggressive posts at all, just concern at various levels about how we are doing. A lot of the feeling is fueled by our , shall we say extreme keenness to get back to the Prem ASAP and the first attempt is your best. If we fluff this up this time we could be doing an Ipswich!
We should be doing much better than we are and there are concerns. No one is really asking for Neils axing at the moment but he needs to turn it around as we have not been brilliant in the past few games despite how he has been dressing it up in his post match interviews

If he did get sacked I would not be overly upset I must admit, but I hope he can change it around. Still a lot if football to play but as I said concerns are being raised that need sorting.

As for the board well their lack of quick decision making cost us some may say our Prem place and £50 million income. That is poor in any situation. The recruitment of Adams and the ridiculous " scouring if Europe" rubbish by Bowkett was appalling when they were only ever going to choose Adams. I don't want them sacked. I like McNally, have no problem with the owners ( support the club with a passion) but feel Bowkett is the problem. So maybe some change within the board to freshen things up may be needed and please stop treating the fans like idiots! Be open and up front whenever you can and you will be respected.

 

[Lowestoft Canary]

I expressed and opinion on here I didn't attack anyone, call anyone a derogatory name.

Calling me pathetic is not on really.

I post on here as I don't like the foul mouth abuse on the pinkun but if I am going to be abused on here for expressing my opinion then maybe this is not the forum for me.

I dont expect people to agree with my view just cut out the personal abuse

 

[Boyerboy]

Returning to my previous comments, I think that modern football in general and this thread as a moderate example of the phenomena, place far too much importance on the role of the manager.   We don't post tweets congratulating Adams when Howson hits a killer ball that sets Jerome free who scores a good goal. We might praise Adams for his role in selecting the team and giving players freedom to play but we recognise individual brilliance for what it is.

Yet if the team fails because of individual errors and collective sloppiness, it becomes the manager's fault.   There was some merit in the arguments last season that Hughton was slow to change a failing situation which is one of the very few things a manager can do once a game has started but that specific criticism cannot be made of Adams.

Changing the manager won't make Grabban's penalties more accurate or Ruddy hold the ball better.   Adams has done his part of the task well enough.   He is a manager not a sorcerer or Svengali.  He is a man responsible for preparing a team, selecting it and adjusting it as the circumstances of the game require.   Players are not robots.  He cannot programme them to do his bidding precisely.

The malaise of English football is the expectation that manager's are some sort of alchemist who can make miracles and create their desires on a team.   That is why manager's come under impossible pressure.   Managers fuel this belief by always being ready to step in each other's shoes and promising that they will do better.   But ultimately, whilst ability is a factor for managers, most competent managers are little different from each other and all managers have much less effect on team performance than simple bare luck.

The players need to get back to doing their part of the task now and keep to it.

 

[SussexYellow]

Boyerboy your points are well made and entirely logical, but to me at least manager's certainly do make a difference. Do we think that Gunn would have got us out of division 1 - upwards! - yet Lambert did with pretty much Gunn's squad.

This could be down to the motivational/inspirational attributes of some managers or their ability to place their pieces on the board that provides that vital edge over the opposition. I know not. But if you ask me can a manager change the fortunes of a team? I would have to answer yes.

 

[SussexYellow]

I expressed and opinion on here I didn't attack anyone, call anyone a derogatory name.

Calling me pathetic is not on really.

I post on here as I don't like the foul mouth abuse on the pinkun but if I am going to be abused on here for expressing my opinion then maybe this is not the forum for me.

I dont expect people to agree with my view just cut out the personal abuse

I agree with you King personal abuse is not on.

But look at things in context - you have started a thread that has led to a lot of interesting balanced debate. That needs to be balanced itself against one unfortunate comment from a poster who is certainly not known for being abusive, quite the opposite.

I think I got accused of applauding Wiz! I am not sure I was, just responding that he had not posted for a bit. But hey nothing to get upset about.

 

[Beauseant]

I think its important to separate facts from opinions at times like this. The facts are that, after a good start City have won 2 of the last 10 games, struggled for goals and been prone to moments of defensive madness.

Opinions are "Sack Adams", "Sack the Board" "Drop Ruddy" "This is a tough league so we should expect these sorts of results" "Lalalala nothing's wrong and everything is wonderful" etc. No-one should receive personal abuse for expressing an opinion, because without opinions boards such as this would have no purpose.

The one thing I think we all agree on is that something has to change to get us out of this rut, although there will be plenty of disagreement as to what! For my part I think we have paid the price for accommodating players (Martin at CB being the obvious example) and playing others out of position as a result (Grabban and Lafferty anywhere but up top, Howson in defensive midfield, O'Neil on the bench). My greatest concern, though, is the soft white underbelly that this squad is displaying in a league where toughness is a virtue. Regardless of the management issue there is a need for a number of players to man up.

 

[eatonparkboy]

I think its important to separate facts from opinions at times like this. The facts are that, after a good start City have won 2 of the last 10 games, struggled for goals and been prone to moments of defensive madness.

Opinions are "Sack Adams", "Sack the Board" "Drop Ruddy" "This is a tough league so we should expect these sorts of results" "Lalalala nothing's wrong and everything is wonderful" etc. No-one should receive personal abuse for expressing an opinion, because without opinions boards such as this would have no purpose.

The one thing I think we all agree on is that something has to change to get us out of this rut, although there will be plenty of disagreement as to what! For my part I think we have paid the price for accommodating players (Martin at CB being the obvious example) and playing others out of position as a result (Grabban and Lafferty anywhere but up top, Howson in defensive midfield, O'Neil on the bench). My greatest concern, though, is the soft white underbelly that this squad is displaying in a league where toughness is a virtue. Regardless of the management issue there is a need for a number of players to man up.

I think you are right about the toughness. Both physically and mentally. And that is why the teams that go down as we did a few years back, don't have it. We came back up because the managerial staff and many of the players could be tough. And apart from his goals, that is why a player like Holt endeared himself to the supporters. And why Drury had a long and successful career.

And to compare, how many of the team, at the moment look like battlers?

 

[Boyerboy]

I have never said that the manager makes no difference. That would be preposterous.

I only say that the importance and effect of the manager is over rated and over valued by most fans. This obsession with the performance of the manager and sacking him or not is misleading.  Apart from anything else, it allows the players to escape full responsibility for their performances.

 

[Personal Trainer]

I think its important to separate facts from opinions at times like this. The facts are that, after a good start City have won 2 of the last 10 games, struggled for goals and been prone to moments of defensive madness.

Opinions are "Sack Adams", "Sack the Board" "Drop Ruddy" "This is a tough league so we should expect these sorts of results" "Lalalala nothing's wrong and everything is wonderful" etc. No-one should receive personal abuse for expressing an opinion, because without opinions boards such as this would have no purpose.

The one thing I think we all agree on is that something has to change to get us out of this rut, although there will be plenty of disagreement as to what! For my part I think we have paid the price for accommodating players (Martin at CB being the obvious example) and playing others out of position as a result (Grabban and Lafferty anywhere but up top, Howson in defensive midfield, O'Neil on the bench). My greatest concern, though, is the soft white underbelly that this squad is displaying in a league where toughness is a virtue. Regardless of the management issue there is a need for a number of players to man up.

To my mind the majority of problems have been brought about by a back four who, apart from Turner, rarely look comfortable and lack spatial awareness. 

 

[Dubai Mark]

Enjoyed reading this thread....trust me, I still also post on the pink-un board and this one is certainly nothing like it (yet)......but does need people not to be afraid of challenging others, disagreeing respectfully and having a good debate.....there are always two sides to a story and they can often be poles apart and sometimes we dont like it, but we are all grown up and move on...OTBC