Would you have Ched Evans?

[Surgeryman]

No.

 

[ZLF]

While I do think he is guilty (only 20-30 people went through every minute of the trial,  and no matter the quality of reporting none of us can doubt the assessment of the jury,  they were convinced of his guilt - having done jury service the mis match between reporting and being there is significant)  I do not agree that he should be banned from playing football again,  he has served his punishment.

So my assessment of whether I want him here is based purely upon ability - I think we have better in our three main strikers and as much potential in Loza and Morris. 

 

[crabbycanary]

Would anyone here, have wanted Lee Hughes or Marlon King at Norwich, when they were convicted and released?

 

[Dubai Mark]

Seeing Nick Clegg at anytime makes my stomach turn. At the time having followed it a little I was genuinely surprised of the verdict and I expect him to get a positive result with the appeal. That said, yes it was a really stupid incident to be involved with, and he should rightly be ashamed of what he did............there will be more to come out of this yet I am sure. As for his ability, he has always looked very decent to me, and without this incident I feel he could well have moved through to a Premier league club by now. 

 

[crabbycanary]

To answer the question - No

Like has been said a million times, only a few know ALL the facts. Heresay is a wonderful thing

How would people feel if it was their daughter at the centre of all this?

 

[splutcho]

Genuine question - To everyone saying he's served his time so you'd have no problem with him coming back (and I'm not saying you're wrong), would you say the same thing if he'd just been released from prison after being locked up for paedophilia?

 

[dj161]

I think we should just forget the criminal side of it and just say, is he going to be any better than Hooper, Jerome, Lafferty and Grabban after spending the past couple of years in prison, and the simple answer is no

 

[splutcho]

I think we should just forget the criminal side of it and just say, is he going to be any better than Hooper, Jerome, Lafferty and Grabban after spending the past couple of years in prison, and the simple answer is no

While this is true, I'm pretty sure the question was asked with the morality of his crime in mind.

 

[Moosheep]

How would people feel if it was their daughter at the centre of all this?

How would people feel if it was their SON at the centre of all this? Would you be happy to see them ostracized and barred from returning to their profession, despite having served the punishment deemed appropriate by society?

By accepting Ched Evans's return to football we are no way condoning his crime, instead we are endorsing the decisions made (on our behalf) by the justice system. Thankfully this allows people to move beyond the mistakes of their pasts once punishment has been served. This should be the same for everyone, whether they are a shop worker or a footballer; whether they maintain their innocence or admit their guilt.

On a seperate note, Ched Evans is only half way through his sentence and will now be under the supervision of the probabtion service. This can be very restrictive and ultimately, until the full 5 years have been served, it will be they who dictate whether he is allowed to return to football (or indeed any job). I expect that they won't be allowing him the freedoms needed to be a professional footballer for quite some time.

Would I have him back at Norwich? If he fitted a gap in the squad, yes.

Moo

 

[ZLF]

Genuine question - To everyone saying he's served his time so you'd have no problem with him coming back (and I'm not saying you're wrong), would you say the same thing if he'd just been released from prison after being locked up for paedophilia?

I genuinely beleive in rehabilitation and second chances - so a yes for me.   

Cheds punishment was a 5 year sentence,  not a sentence and a ban form x, y or z jobs.   I stick to that for all offences,  no matter how vile.   Get the sentence right (a different discussion) and why not - people can, and do, change.

As part of their sentencing, paedophiles are usually restricted to roles that do not place them with children and impose restrictions on where they can live etc - sensible sentencing for me;    unless the club regularly trains with the youth set up then a career as a footballer should be allowable. 

 

[Moosheep]

Genuine question - To everyone saying he's served his time so you'd have no problem with him coming back (and I'm not saying you're wrong), would you say the same thing if he'd just been released from prison after being locked up for paedophilia?

Why paedophillia? What about murder? Or arson? Or shop lifting? Or fraud? All crimes have victims. Surely if you are going to ban someone from their profession for one crime you have to ban them for all, or do you have some sort of 'crime hierarchy' in mind?

Moo

 

[splutcho]

Why paedophillia? What about murder? Or arson? Or shop lifting? Or fraud? All crimes have victims. Surely if you are going to ban someone from their profession for one crime you have to ban them for all, or do you have some sort of 'crime hierarchy' in mind?

Moo

No of course not, it was an example of the most emotive crime I could think of off hand.

 

[ZLF]

All of the details that were given to the jury are available online. Having looked at the details I can't believe they gave the guilty verdict based on the evidence presented to the court. Look at the case details and make a decision for yourself. But like I said, I would't have him at the club unless he had his name cleared. 

Some words are available on line,  and they are subject to tonal adjustment by the reporter - no matter how impartial;   

Communication is only a third about the words - the manner the evidence is given, body language,   the credibility of each of the witnesses all play a crucial part.    That is not conveyed and s clearly influential on the 13 adults making their decision 

 

[Canaryboy]

Genuine question - To everyone saying he's served his time so you'd have no problem with him coming back (and I'm not saying you're wrong), would you say the same thing if he'd just been released from prison after being locked up for paedophilia?

Well its certainly very different. 

I doubt that anybody is going to determine that Ched Evans poses a serious risk to women and is going to go round raping all of the female office staff at Sheffield United, because he slept with somebody who was judged to be too drunk to consent. 

Whereas with a convicted peadophile (although there is no crime called 'being a peadophile', which is a mental disorder), they are not permitted to work anywhere where they come into contact with children, which on a training ground they sometimes will (academy). Although in our society we don't distinguish between child abusers and people who collect illegal images of children, and I think that needs to change pronto. 

Graham Rix was convicted of underage sex and indecent assault, and was seemingly reintegrated into football in this country. He never had his conviction overturned, so he got his second chance didn't he? Surely that sets the precedent? 

 

[bigfish]

I detect a certain element of misogyny here, a bit of old school football supporter "well isn't he lad" and "she probably deserved it the drunk slapper". This is particularly evident in those saying on the evidence they can't believe the conviction. This after a full trial and a rejected appeal  Now he might be innocent and he might get exonerated on appeal but I don't pretend to be able to judge this. As things stand however he is guilty and shows no remorse so I feel there should be no way back to English football for him. 

Footballers are different, they are role models and they have careers that make them millionaires. Are really going to have kids walking about with Evans on their replica shirts. Strikes me that this would be no different to the Cambridge rapist makes that used to be sold.

 

[splutcho]

(although there is no crime called 'being a peadophile', which is a mental disorder)

Quite right, poor wording on my part, and yes I suppose you're right on being a risk as well.

Probably not the best example, but really the point I was trying to get across is that I don't think people view rape as badly as they should. It really is a terrible crime.

 

[crabbycanary]

Moosheep, although I get the sentiment of your question (about if it was my Son) it is very close to sounding like Evans is the victim in all this, despite all the legal processes.

If it was my son, I would want him to get back into the best job he can, to provide a future for himself. In Evans case this is football. if I was a Football manager I wouldn't want to touch him with a  bargepole, because of the potential for backlash (it would be inevitable without a doubt) and anyway,  there are dozens of better (safer bets?) footballers out there than Evans. I feel that may not come into it with the arrogance that football holds, when it comes to day to day living.

Evans, wether you like it or not, is perceived as a role model because of the (footballing) status he achieved, and would you want your Son, to come up with the excuse that 'it was alright when Ched Evans did it', in front of a Court of Law? 

He could get a job in football, coaching etc

Anyway, like I said, what if it was your daughter?

 

[Canaryboy]

I detect a certain element of misogyny here, a bit of old school football supporter "well isn't he lad" and "she probably deserved it the drunk slapper". This is particularly evident in those saying on the evidence they can't believe the conviction. 

I haven't seen anybody make comments on those lines. 

Some are saying that they don't find the conviction entirely convincing, and others are saying that he shouldn't lose his right to employment (football player is just a profession, like any other). 

Nobody is saying that "drunk birds in short skirts are just asking for it" or similar. 

 

[The Ghost of Michael Theo]

Genuine question - To everyone saying he's served his time so you'd have no problem with him coming back (and I'm not saying you're wrong), would you say the same thing if he'd just been released from prison after being locked up for paedophilia?

This is a very interesting point.

I've read this debate and so far not commented. Reason being is that, while I hold the opinion that Ched - while being very stupid, thinking with his little head rather than his big one - was probably not guilty of rape. People can say what they like with their own moral compass as to what he did, however as far as the information I have read. While some of his acts are very bad and indefensible, I still can't see how he was convicted.

At the end of the day, no one has won from this scenario. Ched's served time in jail. The girl by all accounts has had to do everything short of witness protection to get away from the abuse from his fans. It's a awful situation I'm sure everyone now regrets.

That aside though, Ched is at this point in time a convicted rapist. Do we want that kind of attention at the club at this, or any time? Probably not.

As it turns out, we're all just a mob of NIMBY's (i.e. Not In My Back Yard), myself included. I just think - as this debate shows - we all have different places where we draw the line. The point above asking about Marlon King & Lee Hughes is also relevant to this. If I was given a choice between the 3, I'd probably choose Ched. Others may differ. Would people have Louis Sauez - a known racist and 'convicted bitter' at the club? Perhaps people would look over that, seeing as though he's one of the best players in the world.

It's a very interesting argument. I don't think there is a right or wrong answer. However, I do hope Ched, the girl, and everyone involved in this are able to move on.

However, in answering the question, would I have Ched back? No. While I do think he deserves a chance, I wouldn't want my club to be the one that gives it to him.

 

[Canaryboy]

Putting the moral arguments aside, and whether people have their doubts or not, I suspect that Ched Evans will find it very difficult to resume his career in this country, because he's just going to get constant abuse from the stands. E.g. "she said no Evans, she said no, etc". 

He'll probably have to end up moving overseas to play, because I can't see fans in this country passing on the opportunity to wind him up, especially as a prolific striker who is most likely to bang them in. He's going to have to develop a very thick skin very quickly, or play abroad?