The trouble with Norwich...

[morty]

And to counter the post slightly, we are in the best financial shape we have ever been in, it would take a pretty catastrophic fall for us to even get close to being in trouble again. And I am not, of course, advocating complete financial irresponsability.

And of course attendance, or non attendance of games does not denigrate nor give any fan's opinion more weight. But speaking as someone who left home last Sunday morning at 8am, and got home 16 and a half hours later, I expected a bit more from Norwich City, and that "bit more" was perfectly achievable with just a small push of the financial boundries this summer.

If you're not progressing, you are standing still, and that will only end one way.

 

[eatonparkboy]

And to counter the post slightly, we are in the best financial shape we have ever been in, it would take a pretty catastrophic fall for us to even get close to being in trouble again. And I am not, of course, advocating complete financial irresponsability.

And of course attendance, or non attendance of games does not denigrate nor give any fan's opinion more weight. But speaking as someone who left home last Sunday morning at 8am, and got home 16 and a half hours later, I expected a bit more from Norwich City, and that "bit more" was perfectly achievable with just a small push of the financial boundries this summer.

If you're not progressing, you are standing still, and that will only end one way.

I accept what you say but ask if you really think our current coaching team have enough experience, connections and respect to be able to spend large sums? Irrespective of the £40M+ he recouped, Tim Sherwood spent over £50M and did not improve Villa one jot. And no amount of blaming his employers, players or fans can improve his record, albeit a short one.

I do feel for away supporters. It is one of the loneliest feelings on the journey home after a defeat and even worse when humbled. And of course thoughts turn to improvements to the squad and the ones that got away for the want of a bit more money. And as supporters we are all convinced who would have made the difference to the team. The complexities of transfers which include clearances, families, house hunting, language etc are not evident or important to us. You have just spent £100+ and don't begrudge it if you feel your effort and contribution is matched by the club.

Of course we must progress. The ground development being one that returns to the agenda frequently. But I do not see us progressing in the price or calibre of player we bring in while we continue to appoint relatively inexperienced managers. And that clearly is the boards decision so they must take the responsibility for that.

Although it would be no guarantee, I do see the only progression or next step is to appoint a name manager with a history in the market. I don't wish to be terse or simplistic but I do think Mourinho, Van Gaal and company do have it easier in those respects because of their records.

Ancelotti anyone?

 

[morty]

I accept what you say but ask if you really think our current coaching team have enough experience, connections and respect to be able to spend large sums? Irrespective of the £40M+ he recouped, Tim Sherwood spent over £50M and did not improve Villa one jot. And no amount of blaming his employers, players or fans can improve his record, albeit a short one.

I do feel for away supporters. It is one of the loneliest feelings on the journey home after a defeat and even worse when humbled. And of course thoughts turn to improvements to the squad and the ones that got away for the want of a bit more money. And as supporters we are all convinced who would have made the difference to the team. The complexities of transfers which include clearances, families, house hunting, language etc are not evident or important to us. You have just spent £100+ and don't begrudge it if you feel your effort and contribution is matched by the club.

Of course we must progress. The ground development being one that returns to the agenda frequently. But I do not see us progressing in the price or calibre of player we bring in while we continue to appoint relatively inexperienced managers. And that clearly is the boards decision so they must take the responsibility for that.

Although it would be no guarantee, I do see the only progression or next step is to appoint a name manager with a history in the market. I don't wish to be terse or simplistic but I do think Mourinho, Van Gaal and company do have it easier in those respects because of their records.

Ancelotti anyone?

If our coaching / management team can't be trusted to identify and buy players then should they really be in the job?

I like Alex Neil, and I hope he does well, and more importantly he learns very quickly. And that the board recognise his efforts, and back him in the transfer window.

But we all know, in our heart of hearts, he was a cheap option. One that, luckily, has worked out so far.

I think ( and lets make it clear, I am in no way saying we need to change our manager right now) that appointing someone akin to Ancelotti would show a real ambition. Remember how most of us were slightly underwhelmed when Alex Neil was appointed? I remember saying at the time that the board needed to get this one right, and it had to be someone with "wow" factor to reunite the fans after the Neil Adams debacle. I bet the board breathed a collective sigh of relief when that final whistle went at Wembley!

 

[Indy_Bones]

Talk about going full circle!

I remember before we appointed each of Adams, Neil and Hughton saying that I thought there were a number of good managers on the continent who would have been excellent appointments, and pretty much every time got laughed off or told I was using Football Manager to identify complete 'no-marks' from Europe (such as Bento and Guidolin...), yet now we're talking about the likes of Ancelotti being an option if we're ambitious!!!

We have almost always gone for the cheap option when it comes to managers, and I see ZERO indication of this changing anytime soon either.

I'd personally be very happy if we were more ambitious at some point in the future should the board decide to part ways with AN, but chances are it'll simply be another relative unknown or perennially linked manager instead...

 

[Canaryboy]

Its too early to start talking about new managers, lets give this guy a chance, we're newly promoted and not currently in the relegation zone.

Michael Laudrup is unemployed though 

And Paul Lambert  h34r:

Mick McCarthy probably looking for an escape 

We can't say there are no options. 

 

[morty]

Talk about going full circle!

I remember before we appointed each of Adams, Neil and Hughton saying that I thought there were a number of good managers on the continent who would have been excellent appointments, and pretty much every time got laughed off or told I was using Football Manager to identify complete 'no-marks' from Europe (such as Bento and Guidolin...), yet now we're talking about the likes of Ancelotti being an option if we're ambitious!!!

We have almost always gone for the cheap option when it comes to managers, and I see ZERO indication of this changing anytime soon either.

I'd personally be very happy if we were more ambitious at some point in the future should the board decide to part ways with AN, but chances are it'll simply be another relative unknown or perennially linked manager instead...

This thread isn't questioning Alex Neil, it is about the philosophy of the board, and how it might be time to tweak it a little. If we want to be a big club maybe its about time we started acting like one.

 

[Wiz]

Its too early to start talking about new managers, lets give this guy a chance, we're newly promoted and not currently in the relegation zone.

Michael Laudrup is unemployed though 

And Paul Lambert  h34r:

Mick McCarthy probably looking for an escape 

We can't say there are no options. 

Add Brendan Rodgers and Tim Sherwood to that list CB.

 

[Wiz]

This thread isn't questioning Alex Neil, it is about the philosophy of the board, and how it might be time to tweak it a little. If we want to be a big club maybe its about time we started acting like one.

Totally agree morty but if I had said that............. :wacko:

 

[morty]

Totally agree morty but if I had said that............. :wacko:

It depends on how you word things, or construct your point though. I couldn't be more proud of how Norwich City is run, and how the structure of the club is based on longevity and stability and how we are in the best financial state that we have ever been in. But times change, the game is changing. I am not waving a burning torch, or demanding heads on platters. It just feels a little like we are plowing a lone furrow in how we operate, I had high hopes for the financial fair play inititiave, hoping we would actually benefit from it, but it is unlikely ever to be the case.

 

[KeiranShikari]

Talk about going full circle!

I remember before we appointed each of Adams, Neil and Hughton saying that I thought there were a number of good managers on the continent who would have been excellent appointments, and pretty much every time got laughed off or told I was using Football Manager to identify complete 'no-marks' from Europe (such as Bento and Guidolin...), yet now we're talking about the likes of Ancelotti being an option if we're ambitious!!!

We have almost always gone for the cheap option when it comes to managers, and I see ZERO indication of this changing anytime soon either.

I'd personally be very happy if we were more ambitious at some point in the future should the board decide to part ways with AN, but chances are it'll simply be another relative unknown or perennially linked manager instead...

eatonparkboy was joking.

 

[Boyerboy]

Am I missing something about Neil and transfers?  Ok, we didn't get all those we would have liked but conversely, all those signed in the summer have looked the part and several look like quality acquisitions.  Identifying good targets is not the problem.

 

[morty]

Am I missing something about Neil and transfers?  Ok, we didn't get all those we would have liked but conversely, all those signed in the summer have looked the part and several look like quality acquisitions.  Identifying good targets is not the problem.

The point is that I think that we could have what we liked and needed, had the purse strings been loosened just a little bit. And we would likely have got better value for money than we will get buying in January.

 

[KeiranShikari]

People are just annoyed that we haven't won in a while and need something to blame. Not really sure where it's going really, obviously if we had a more established manager some players would be more open to joining us. Although I think a year or two in the Premier League will have exactly the same effect. 

This season was always going to be an uphill struggle and one that Neil is perfectly capable of getting us through.

Even if the worst does happen I still think Neil will be our man.

 

[splutcho]

Add Tim Sherwood to that list CB.

Oh come on now you are trolling, surely?

 

[morty]

People are just annoyed that we haven't won in a while and need something to blame. Not really sure where it's going really, obviously if we had a more established manager some players would be more open to joining us. Although I think a year or two in the Premier League will have exactly the same effect. 

This season was always going to be an uphill struggle and one that Neil is perfectly capable of getting us through.

Even if the worst does happen I still think Neil will be our man.

If you read my opening post again then you'll see that this isn't a knee jerk reaction, a criticism of Alec Neil, or lighting a burning torch for the board. This is our 4th season in the Premiership in the last 5, we're not new to this, I would no longer class us as Premiership new boys. And whilst I love the fact that the club is well run, an example of our small time thinking was there for all to see with the rather embarrassing Robbie Brady transfer saga. And I genuinely think that the public perception, based on that, has had a detrimental effect on landing potential transfer targets.

 

[KeiranShikari]

4 of the last 5 but last year we were in the Championship, Whilst we can see that our squad is stronger than the last time we were promoted players that don't know much about us will look at the fact that we are a newly promoted side.

As I've said, season 2 will be much easier whilst looking abroad.

 

[Canaryboy]

That said,  there is no doubt that if we had a big name manager like a Big Sam or even Pullis, our chances of signing more established EPL players would increase, if that there is no doubt,  well better than Androu anyway. 

Those types of managers seem to have a formula which just works in terms of staying in this league, so when you appoint one of those managers you are pretty much just purchasing yourself a likely period of stability. Which in fairness would suit us just fine right now because we could do with a few years in this league to finance a ground expansion. 

But lets not overstate the case for a manager like this, watch Sam Allardyce go back to what he knows and sign his teachers pet Kevin Nolan any day now, and lets remember that he once spent his entire transfer budget on Andy Carroll and then had to play with a 4-6-0 or Carlton Cole as a lone striker for a season. He also spent a fortune on Matt Jarvis and outright failed to get the best out of him, Alex Neil is getting more out of him. West Ham fans are currently creaming themselves over Payet because Allardyce didn't have room for a flair player like that, and I doubt he'd have any time for Hoolahan either.

Not having an exciting player or two and not attempting to play passing football is just not the Norwich way and will never satisfy the faithful. We'd be bored stiff under either of those, many would probably prefer to yo-yo. 

I do think things will become easier for us in the transfer market in the summer if we stay up, not just because players don't like signing for newly promoted sides but also because we'll probably have a bigger budget, we know that we're covering a £5.5m loss out of this seasons budget, and we've got a large number of well paid but underplayed strikers to try and get off the books to free up some money. Lafferty, Hooper, Grabban, RVW, collectively they must currently be a drain on our budget, especially when you consider that strikers tend to be the best paid players in the squad (strikers premium), having 2 more strikers than we need must be costing us a few million in wages + whatever we can get for them in the market. 

 

[eatonparkboy]

Pondering on the OP which as Morty says is about attitude rather than individuals, I found myself in a supermarket this morning and watching people shop (no, I'm not a stalker) it occurred to me that NCFC was very much similar to what I was witnessing.

Some people bought what they wanted. No checking price, health or source, it was dropped into the trolley. Some people had lists and were sticking solely to those and had probably done research if not familiarity with what they were buying. Others were choosing just value products, obviously based on available money to spend. And others were just buying specifics like alcohol.

I have always thought that NCFC, and this dates back to the mid fifties, that our attitude was based on research and familiarity, just thinking of how many of our ex playersand ex number twos have managed the club and the others that have come from humbler beginnings. Although we have been close to insolvency on a couple of occasions, to be honest I don't think we have been one of the clubs run on a shoestring through lack of income. Indeed I remember the Supporters Club handing over large sums for the club to hopefully spend on players. And many delighted when we splashed out on RVW but now aren't so sure if that way is the best.

If only thinking financial is the club's philosophy then I doubt much will ever change. There is a balance to be had. Some people can go into a bookies and not do their wages. We have had mention of five year plans etc but we don't seem to able to hold it together long enough for those plans to come to fruition. 

All I do know is that there is a majority love for this club not based on just football but because of the way it is run and handles itself. Delia Smith or Randy Lerner?

 

[Dubai Mark]

Love this thread, love this board!  Just had to say that again,  its so refreshing to read this board......we just need more contributors!

 

[Canaryboy]

Delia Smith or Randy Lerner?

Here's another angle, should we be grateful that we aren't seen as a 'fashionable' club when it comes to the day that Delia and her husband decide they need to sell up? 

Because not being trendy might help us to avoid some of these long distance billionaires who get bored of their toys after a few years or want to change our colours to red and our nickname to The Super Eagles.

Then again, perhaps the opposite is true, Hull and Cardiff are at least as unfashionable as us. 

I hope Michael Foulger and similar local figures would step up to become the continuation candidates, perhaps Bowkett and McNally could even be involved in any buyout of their stake, they must have a sizeable net worth themselves. Bowkett in particular.