Just how good was Dean Ashton?

[ZLF]

Best striker at the club since Sutton who never fulfilled his potential. But likely to have been an england squad regular imo

 

[Dubai Mark]

Wiz, sure Grant Holt was the bigger signing when looking at what was achieved whilst with the club. I remember seeing Holty for the first time in the flesh so to speak, during one of my trips home, it was vs Huddersfield I think. I was so impressed with him and remember then thinking it was like having two players on the pitch his contribution was so immense, and I dont think he scored that day. Even taking in to consideration the other greats we have had, Grant Holt's contribution is right up there and so deserving of the "legend" tag......

As for Ashton,  I just remember being just so struck by his pure class and I really dont think anyone on here has over exaggerated, he was on a fast track to the big time......

 

[Watling the Gnome]

If Ashton had stayed fit and been blessed with stronger bones, he would have been an England regular. A lot about his game is reminiscent of a top-form Harry Kane - touch, control, strength, use of both feet, aerial ability.

So obviously he'd have stayed for the season, been sold for really silly money to Chelsea (e.g.) and we'd still be moaning about the club's lack of ambition now.

 

[Watling the Gnome]

and we'd still be moaning about the club's lack of ambition now.

Oh, silly me!

 

[Canaryboy]

I would argue that Grant Holt was a far bigger and better signing for us than Deano was.

Achieved much more for us, yes, although Ashton didn't play a full season. In the Premier League season it is likely that he'd have scored the goals required to keep us up if we'd signed him in the summer.

And in the Championship season I believe we finished 9th, so who knows whether keeping hold of him for the whole season would have seen us creep into 6th, but difficult in hindsight to begrudge him that move considering playing and scoring at Wembley at the end of that season for West Ham in an FA Cup final is probably the highlight of his very short career (the only equal possibly his solitary England cap?). 

Holt though was actually a very mediocre player in terms of technical ability, but did have a very good footballing brain, which is probably why he peaked later in his career (just got wiser and smarter, learnt how to make the best use out of the hand he was dealt?). 

Ashton was also a very intelligent player but had the technical ability to match, really quick feet for a big man and his first touch was colossal. The only other Norwich player I can remember with a first touch as good as his was Paul McVeigh, during his best couple of years. 

The current player that I would most liken to Dean Ashton is probably Christian Benteke? Everything you need to be a successful centre forward, plus deceptively skillful, and the ability to pull something speculator out of the hat to win a game every so often. 

I don't think I'm doing Ashton an injustice by comparing him to Benteke, because if I were a centre back in the Premier League he'd easily be in the top 5 forwards I'd least like to come up against and his £32.5m price tag is pretty much spot on what Splutcho would value Ashton at in today's market. 

 

[GJP]

Just to add, a Dean Ashton, with no injury problems now, would cost you upwards of £30m

Unlikely. £15m - £20m maybe.

 

[splutcho]

Unlikely. £15m - £20m maybe.

You think Andy Carroll is worth more than Dean Ashton was?

You really think a player of his quality without injury (goals, potential, HOMEGROWN) would cost about the same as Ross McCormack or Jordan Rhodes (no PL goals) in today's market?

 

[Watling the Gnome]

Benteke isn't a bad comparison. I stick by Harry Kane as a comparison, but I can see both as fair.  Either way, shedloads of money.

 

[Canaryboy]

Unlikely. £15m - £20m maybe.

£15m for his move from Norwich in the Championship to West Ham in the Premier League in today's market perhaps, but not for the move he would have got after that if he'd not been seriously crocked, £30m+ from West Ham to a big four/five team I reckon. 

 

[Din]

I went to my first Norwich game a couple of months before Ashton left, it was clear even to me as a 10 year old in that one game that he was a class above. Such a shame that he had so many injury problems as he would've gone to have a brilliant career I'm sure. I agree with the Harry Kane comparison, and he would've undoubtedly been an England regular.

 

[GJP]

You think Andy Carroll is worth more than Dean Ashton was?

You really think a player of his quality without injury (goals, potential, HOMEGROWN) would cost about the same as Ross McCormack or Jordan Rhodes (no PL goals) in today's market?

Well the Andy Carroll transfer is a bit different because of the Torres deal. 

Having said that, Carroll and Ashton are probably about the same level.

Really if you want to look at a comparison in today's market you probably want to look at Charlie Austin. And it wouldn't take £30m to buy him.

 

[GJP]

£15m for his move from Norwich in the Championship to West Ham in the Premier League in today's market perhaps, but not for the move he would have got after that if he'd not been seriously crocked, £30m+ from West Ham to a big four/five team I reckon. 

Depends who you want to put in your big 4/5. I couldn't have seen him playing for Man City, Utd, Chelsea or Arsenal.

Maybe Liverpool or Spurs or Everton. Speaking of Everton, how much did Lukaku cost them? £18m? 

 

[splutcho]

Having said that, Carroll and Ashton are probably about the same level.

Will have to agree to disagree there. That carthorse isn't fit to lace Ashton's boots.

 

[GJP]

Carroll is a really good player. He's just never, ever going to stay fit. Had he played for Norwich we'd all rave about how good he was - and could have been.

 

[morty]

Carroll is a really good player. He's just never, ever going to stay fit. Had he played for Norwich we'd all rave about how good he was - and could have been.

Too much of a one trick pony who can head a ball. He'd have been great ten or fifteen years ago, when big bully strikers like that were fashionable.

Liverpool absolutely got their pants pulled down there.

 

[GJP]

He's a better player with the ball than people give him credit for just because he's good in the air.

 

[Canaryboy]

Carroll is a really good player. He's just never, ever going to stay fit. Had he played for Norwich we'd all rave about how good he was - and could have been.

I really did rate Andy Carroll and did say earlier in the thread that Newcastle fans will probably be saying similar things about him in the future, about how good he could have been if he'd not had injury problems.  

Alan Shearer himself was furious when Newcastle sold him for £36m, and Van Persie rated him very highly.  

Without a doubt his biggest strength is headed goals, and that may make him a bit of a 'one trick pony', but he sure was a master of it and Miroslav Klose has made a big name for himself scoring mostly with his head, World Cup winner and 71 goals for Germany, and still doing the business at 37 years old.

Ultimately I think that both Ashton and Carroll are a big loss to England.

 

[morty]

I really did rate Andy Carroll and did say earlier in the thread that Newcastle fans will probably be saying similar things about him in the future, about how good he could have been if he'd not had injury problems.  

Alan Shearer himself was furious when Newcastle sold him for £36m, and Van Persie rated him very highly.  

Without a doubt his biggest strength is headed goals, and that may make him a bit of a 'one trick pony', but he sure was a master of it and Miroslav Klose has made a big name for himself scoring mostly with his head, World Cup winner and 71 goals for Germany, and still doing the business at 37 years old.

Ultimately I think that both Ashton and Carroll are a big loss to England.

I guess time will tell, but if Andy Carrol is still playing at 37 and has won a world cup, give me your home address and I'll mail you my left testicle

 

[Canaryboy]

I guess time will tell, but if Andy Carrol is still playing at 37 and has won a world cup, give me your home address and I'll mail you my left testicle

What Andy Carroll has gone through over the past couple of years is pretty similar to what Ashton went through from August 2006 to 2009 (when he finally) retired. The original Shaun Wright-Phillips injury was in August 2006, Ashton didn't retire until December 2009, but he ultimately retired because of that injury.

Andy Carroll will probably end up retiring early too, he's had two serious knee ligament injuries and a serious ankle ligament injury, thus I don't expect Andy Carroll to still be playing at a high level at 30 yet alone 37, surprised he hasn't had to retire already actually. Those injuries never properly heal so he'll probably end up limping around a legends game too. 

It is easy to draw comparisons between the two really, both getting a succession of major injuries well before they were supposed to be reaching their peak at the around the same age (starting around 23/24) so never getting to reach their full potential. When do strikers peak, 27/28/29/30?

Probably didn't have the same all round ability that Ashton had, particularly the silky footwork and first touch, but still think he'd be a class centre forward if he'd stayed fit. Will never be that player now. 

Ledley King was another huge one, injury problems started in his early twenties so possibly never reached his full potential but so good he could play at a weekend for Spurs without training, for several years! Who knows whether he'd have been better than John Terry or Rio Ferdinand.  

 

[Canaryboy]

I'll mail you my left testicle

You can keep that fella, a pint someday will do  :lol: