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GJP
Well-Known Member
I would also add I'm yet to see anything from the popular Pinto and Dijks to say they are better defenders.
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morty
Moderator
Staff member
Russel Martin at the presser.
Canaryboy
Well-Known Member
Yes that's the man Morty, seems to know a lot about our situation - must surely have a man on the inside!
Shocked that Ryan Bennett decided not to train, think that says quite a lot about his character. Understand more with those who clearly didn't have a chance of getting on the pitch. But Ryan Bennett is basically turning down the chance to pull on the shirt for one last time, it the process just completely justifies the clubs decision to release him and then shows himself up to be one of those who fits into Webber's "don't care enough" category.
Well we can't moan about Martin playing on Sunday, seeing as Bennett, Turner and Bassong have all opted out.
Shocked that Ryan Bennett decided not to train, think that says quite a lot about his character. Understand more with those who clearly didn't have a chance of getting on the pitch. But Ryan Bennett is basically turning down the chance to pull on the shirt for one last time, it the process just completely justifies the clubs decision to release him and then shows himself up to be one of those who fits into Webber's "don't care enough" category.
Well we can't moan about Martin playing on Sunday, seeing as Bennett, Turner and Bassong have all opted out.
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GJP
Well-Known Member
Well I have been saying for years that Ryben never plays like he really means it. Glad Webber has sussed that out too.
Canaryboy
Well-Known Member
The annoying thing about those who couldn't be bothered to turn up to work is that whether they can't wait to get out of the door or not... they are still getting paid for the next 7 weeks. Just think that tomorrow when most of you will be working hard, Ryan Bennett will probably be getting paid about 3 grand to play on his Playstation, strum his guitar, and have a cheeky w*nk into his sock.
Respect to Whittaker though, good pro.
Also a bit annoyed about Michael Turner really, I know he's not been given a sniff all season and is well past his best, but not like he'll have anything better to do than to sit our bench on Sunday in the absence of Bassong and Bennett and perhaps he'd have been given 5 minutes for a nice round of applause.
Lets reward Efete with a debut from the bench instead, let him quality for a Wikipedia page (one appearance in the Championship qualifies you for one!).
I've disliked Bassong for a long time and wouldn't have expected anything else than for him to go missing to be honest, there is a reason why he plays like a 38 year old, probably hasn't trained properly for years.
Respect to Whittaker though, good pro.
Also a bit annoyed about Michael Turner really, I know he's not been given a sniff all season and is well past his best, but not like he'll have anything better to do than to sit our bench on Sunday in the absence of Bassong and Bennett and perhaps he'd have been given 5 minutes for a nice round of applause.
Lets reward Efete with a debut from the bench instead, let him quality for a Wikipedia page (one appearance in the Championship qualifies you for one!).
I've disliked Bassong for a long time and wouldn't have expected anything else than for him to go missing to be honest, there is a reason why he plays like a 38 year old, probably hasn't trained properly for years.
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morty
Moderator
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I think the next time I enter a quiz my team's name will be "Ryan Bennett's w*nk sock"
Not sure if Turner is even fit?
Not sure if Turner is even fit?
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GJP
Well-Known Member
Pretty sure we had that with Alex Neil too ;-)
Din
Well-Known Member
Really hope Ruddy gets a great send off, and I'm sure he will. Always put his all in for the club and was a key part of the best times I've witnessed as a Norwich supporter. Before he got that serious injury in Hughton's first season he was a brilliant, Premier League quality goalkeeper as well, worthy of his place in the England squad.
I'm not going to pretend I was ever Whittaker's biggest fan. I think he was good the first year he was here, particularly during the unbeaten run we went on that season. He was indifferent the next, and since then, with the exception of Alex Neil's first few months here when we got promoted he's been quite frankly terrible and I am in all honesty glad we are releasing him. Despite all that however I've always respected him as a professional, and appreciated the fact that he isn't one of those players to just give up when the going gets tough. I remember that game a couple of seasons ago when he was cheered off the pitch when being substituted after having a poor game in centre midfield, which I thought was disgraceful from some of our fans. Yet did we hear him complaining or slagging off the supporters afterwards? No. Despite his footballing limitations he's clearly a good bloke and I would not be at all against him getting one last run out tomorrow.
To be honest I think it's really poor that some of our players have decided not to turn up to training, even if they are getting released. Good riddance to all of them. You're still getting paid an obscene amount of money until your contract runs out next month, so the very least you can do is put the minimum amount of effort in. I'd do anything to be a professional footballer, and yet they act as if it's a chore for them to have to get up and do something which is essentially their hobby. I understand if you've been waking up and playing football every day for 10 years you're going to become acclimatised to the fact that you're lucky to be doing what you're doing, however I don't think it's too much to ask to ask them to earn their money, even if they are leaving. To be honest as well, that's probably a big part of the reason why those certain players are being released. It's an extreme example but if Ronaldo or Messi were told they don't have to come into training you can bet that they still would, because they want to be the best. Obviously the likes of Lafferty and Turner are never going to be the world class, but it's clear to see they don't have the attitude or application to be as good as they can.
As for this game, it would be nice to round off a generally underwhelming season with a good win, which I do actually think we will get. Like others I would like to see Maddison start, though I don't think he will. I imagine it'll be Wes, Pritchard and Josh/Jacob in behind Oliveira. This will probably be the last time time we see certain players, obviously Ruddy and Whittaker or Bennett if they play, but also perhaps Dijks, Klose, Dorrans or Tettey. However I do think overall despite that the atmosphere will be generally positive, mainly because of the quiet excitement there is about changes being made going into next season. This game is almost one last distraction before we head into the summer, even so it would be very nice to win it.
I'm not going to pretend I was ever Whittaker's biggest fan. I think he was good the first year he was here, particularly during the unbeaten run we went on that season. He was indifferent the next, and since then, with the exception of Alex Neil's first few months here when we got promoted he's been quite frankly terrible and I am in all honesty glad we are releasing him. Despite all that however I've always respected him as a professional, and appreciated the fact that he isn't one of those players to just give up when the going gets tough. I remember that game a couple of seasons ago when he was cheered off the pitch when being substituted after having a poor game in centre midfield, which I thought was disgraceful from some of our fans. Yet did we hear him complaining or slagging off the supporters afterwards? No. Despite his footballing limitations he's clearly a good bloke and I would not be at all against him getting one last run out tomorrow.
To be honest I think it's really poor that some of our players have decided not to turn up to training, even if they are getting released. Good riddance to all of them. You're still getting paid an obscene amount of money until your contract runs out next month, so the very least you can do is put the minimum amount of effort in. I'd do anything to be a professional footballer, and yet they act as if it's a chore for them to have to get up and do something which is essentially their hobby. I understand if you've been waking up and playing football every day for 10 years you're going to become acclimatised to the fact that you're lucky to be doing what you're doing, however I don't think it's too much to ask to ask them to earn their money, even if they are leaving. To be honest as well, that's probably a big part of the reason why those certain players are being released. It's an extreme example but if Ronaldo or Messi were told they don't have to come into training you can bet that they still would, because they want to be the best. Obviously the likes of Lafferty and Turner are never going to be the world class, but it's clear to see they don't have the attitude or application to be as good as they can.
As for this game, it would be nice to round off a generally underwhelming season with a good win, which I do actually think we will get. Like others I would like to see Maddison start, though I don't think he will. I imagine it'll be Wes, Pritchard and Josh/Jacob in behind Oliveira. This will probably be the last time time we see certain players, obviously Ruddy and Whittaker or Bennett if they play, but also perhaps Dijks, Klose, Dorrans or Tettey. However I do think overall despite that the atmosphere will be generally positive, mainly because of the quiet excitement there is about changes being made going into next season. This game is almost one last distraction before we head into the summer, even so it would be very nice to win it.
morty
Moderator
Staff member
Good stuff Din. I hope all the players get a good reception, and there aren't any idiots who stay after the final whistle, just to boo!
Canaryboy
Well-Known Member
Like Irvine said though, its also the way the team is defending, if you have full backs that bomb forward and overlap then you need to make sure another player is covering for them. This is why I think we've missed a three lungs like player at the base of the midfield, when Gary O'Neil left we could really have done with bringing in a younger version.
I saw somebody on here say that Gary O'Neil was over rated the other day, can't remember who. I disagree with that actually, the defensive midfielder is always a bit of an unsung hero who does all the unfashionable donkey work but they are critical to the team.... its nice to see one get some acknowledgement for once.
The problem with Pinto is as much the fact that Jacob Murphy can't or wont defend and Tettey doesn't read the game very well as it is his inability to defend. If we want to play 'fluid' attacking football then we have to be precisely that, fluid, meaning that if Tettey has to end up in the left back position defending against a counter attack when Djiks has just whipped a cross in at the other end... then so be it.
When Jerome said that players weren't playing for each other or the manager this is actually precisely how I interpreted it, and if you were Ivo Pinto I think you'd often be unhappy to play behind Jacob Murphy.
This is why I said the other day that we don't defend well enough as an eleven. Gary O'Neil used to get himself all over the place mopping things up and covering positions for his team mates, he did an excellent job.
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GJP
Well-Known Member
Pretty sure it was me.
I don't undervalue or underestimate the work of a defensive midfielder. But I do think GON, or rather his contribution, was a bit overrated.
morty
Moderator
Staff member
I think what we are highlighting here is the balance of the team has been wrong for a long time now. Whittaker got pelters for basically doing exactly the same as Pinto does, but he's aesthetically pleasing and posts a lot on social media. Russel Martin was more of an orthodox RB but never really bombed on like Whitts did. But its a good point about the DM though, the covering back really hasn't been there, which is essential when playing the way we do.
But its not just the DM's job though, and I think we have suffered with a few players who naturally don't have defending as a part of their game, Murphys, Redmond etc. And the fact we can look so great with the ball when we're going forward, then look like a train crash when we lose it pretty much proves the theory. Its odd, I don't know if its down to coaching, or the basic putting together of the team, or having to make the best of what players you have. It wasn't just Alex Neil either, it was evident under Hughton too. Makes me wonder if we over obsess with trying to play "nice" football.
But its not just the DM's job though, and I think we have suffered with a few players who naturally don't have defending as a part of their game, Murphys, Redmond etc. And the fact we can look so great with the ball when we're going forward, then look like a train crash when we lose it pretty much proves the theory. Its odd, I don't know if its down to coaching, or the basic putting together of the team, or having to make the best of what players you have. It wasn't just Alex Neil either, it was evident under Hughton too. Makes me wonder if we over obsess with trying to play "nice" football.
Canaryboy
Well-Known Member
I'm not saying that Gary O'Neil was some sort of superstar, I'm only really saying that he did his job properly. What I'm saying more than anything is that I don't think Tettey does that same job anywhere near well enough for whatever reason. I think its a mix of him not having the legs anymore after countless number of injuries plus just not being particularly good at reading the game or being proactive.
Gary O'Neil was just a very hard working player with lots of stamina, had a decent ability to read the game and a calmness gained through experience of a decade at the top level. I'm not saying he was technically gifted or should have been playing for England or anything. I'm probably saying that Tettey doesn't tick all of those boxes, could have a debate about which ones. If I were being nice I'd argue it might just be stamina, but I think there may be one or two more.
I loved Gary O'Neil though, the Terry Butcher head bandage sealed his legacy for me. I think he was drug tested in the same game, even the FA couldn't believe how much stamina the bloke had. That was clearly not a man who would contemplate missing a days training.... and that's the difference between him and Mulumbu, the player who perhaps would have filled the void this season if he'd have been bothered (and perhaps that's what Alex Neil had in mind when he refused to give Gary O'Neil that extra year).
Gary O'Neil was just a very hard working player with lots of stamina, had a decent ability to read the game and a calmness gained through experience of a decade at the top level. I'm not saying he was technically gifted or should have been playing for England or anything. I'm probably saying that Tettey doesn't tick all of those boxes, could have a debate about which ones. If I were being nice I'd argue it might just be stamina, but I think there may be one or two more.
I loved Gary O'Neil though, the Terry Butcher head bandage sealed his legacy for me. I think he was drug tested in the same game, even the FA couldn't believe how much stamina the bloke had. That was clearly not a man who would contemplate missing a days training.... and that's the difference between him and Mulumbu, the player who perhaps would have filled the void this season if he'd have been bothered (and perhaps that's what Alex Neil had in mind when he refused to give Gary O'Neil that extra year).
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Canaryboy
Well-Known Member
If we had a defensive midfielder who worked as hard as Cameron Jerome then we'd be a much better team, what a legend that man is (just needed to big up a player, because it doesn't feel right just bashing players all the time, believe it or not there are players who I still respect massively and he is one of them).
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GJP
Well-Known Member
Exactly that about the balance of the team being wrong.
I don't think AN ever developed a style of football. He sort of had a formation and system in mind and the players just had to fit into it whether it suited them or not. There was also an issue of trying to run before you can walk - like having Martin as a CB because he is mobile enough to move into the fullback area....but he's not strong enough defending his penalty area.
If you want to have fullbacks bombing forward then you have to have the cover in place for the space they leave behind but also, and I think this gets overlooked, what your fullbacks do going forward has got to make it worth it.
morty
Moderator
Staff member
Its an odd thing, and very much epitomised by Hughton's time here. We were way too open, then lurched to not being able to score. Makes you wonder if when a manager gets a job here, he is given some kind of brief about a particular type of football that is expected at Norwich City. The strange thing is that it is probably based on football played in very different times, by much better managers.
I'm glad that the club has decided that we need a change of direction, and hopefully Webber has a clear idea of what he wants to do.
I'm glad that the club has decided that we need a change of direction, and hopefully Webber has a clear idea of what he wants to do.
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GJP
Well-Known Member
Easy day at the office for the lads.
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